All Members of the Trinity Are Coequal, Coeternal, and Consubstantial

Video/audio transcript

00:0000:00 - all right guys so this lesson we are going to be talking about how all members of the Trinity are co-equal
00:0700:07 - co-eternal and consubstantial and so in other lessons we have talked for example about how the
00:1500:15 - three persons in the Trinity are distinct persons um so uh the father is not the same person as the son is not
00:2300:23 - the same person as the spirit and having established that what we’re going to be talking about now is primarily that
00:2900:29 - there isn’t any inferiority or disparity of status activity or substance between members of the Trinity so that is in so
00:3800:38 - far as we have three persons in the Trinity there isn’t any sense of uh what we might term inferiority between them
00:4700:47 - and so we’re going to be establishing this as we say through status activity and substance so uh kind of in that
00:5400:54 - order we’re going to be talking about how they all possess a full and equal share in the status of deity a full and
01:0001:00 - equal share in the Eternal function of deity so that would be the activity and then a full and equal share in the
01:0601:06 - substance of deity and so we’ll get into a little bit more what we mean by these things maybe they sound a little bit
01:1201:12 - abstract as we go through Point by point but first we’ll be starting off talking about the general concept here that
01:1801:18 - there isn’t any inferiority or disparity between the three members of the Trinity so as we say starting out with
01:2901:29 - here the key point for this lesson is that even though God is three in person that does not mean that there is any
01:3701:37 - inferiority or disparity of status activity or substance between the members of the Trinity now just by way
01:4401:44 - of introduction and I believe we’ve raised this point before in our past oops in our past discussions um this is
01:5201:52 - something that is very difficult for us as humans to understand because within Human Society human relationship ships
02:0002:00 - anytime you have two humans humans do not share the same Essence I think we talked about this a
02:0602:06 - little bit humans are dichotomus made up of body or flesh and spirit and so whenever you have two humans in the
02:1502:15 - world they are inherently not United in the same way that God is um and they have what we would call disparity right
02:2402:24 - maybe they have peculiar strengths and weaknesses um you know they have their personal tendencies in the same way that
02:3002:30 - we have three persons in the Trinity but unlike Human Relationships the Trinity does not have um any hint the slightest
02:3802:38 - hint of uh unequal relationships between the members um and as I say this is just sort of a hard concept for us as humans
02:4702:47 - to wrap our mind around because it’s so very different from how we relate to each other um so I saying that that’s
02:5402:54 - also what is here on the slide so I’ll just go ahead and read this it says in any in human associations there’s always
03:0003:00 - inferiority or disparity of status activity or substance always people are separate beings and these are the simple
03:0703:07 - consequences of that however this is not the case for the God because the Trinity shares completely perfect unity and
03:1403:14 - equality um and so breaking that down a little bit more um as we will get uh more into next time so we’ve already
03:2203:22 - talked about the distinctness between the persons um and in the lesson after this one we’ll be hitting this point
03:2703:27 - here about uh sharing the Essence more um but on account of sharing that Essence the three persons in the Trinity
03:3503:35 - are co-equal co-eternal and consubstantial Partners um and what that means um obviously equality meaning they
03:4403:44 - are all uh you know there is no inferiority between them um co-eternal they are all equally existent outside of
03:5103:51 - time they share in the attributes in the nature and character of God that we kind of opened this study in uh uh part one
04:0004:00 - of Bible basics going over theology in uh so that would be the infinite nature of God and the perfect character of God
04:0704:07 - and consubstantial sharing the same substance the same Essence which is what we will continue to go through all of
04:1504:15 - these three things um are true even despite the members of the Trinity being their own persons um so as we’ve gone
04:2504:25 - through um some of the other things in our progression here of explaining the trinity in terms of things that it is
04:3104:31 - not we’re also going to mention a couple heresies on this particular topic um specifically the notion of equality um
04:4004:40 - heresies of the past which have challenged the co-ee equality of members of the Trinity include so-called
04:4604:46 - subordinationism uh which alternatively asserts that either Christ or the spirit is by nature inferior to the father so
04:5404:54 - just so happens and uh most of these uh positions of false teaching or heresy that the person who is elevated is the
05:0205:02 - father and the person who is uh reduced in status would be the son or the spirit now of course that none of these are
05:0805:08 - true that just happens to be the consistent pattern of the false teaching and aryanism specifically came from a
05:1605:16 - guy in history named Arias uh and aryanism teaches that Christ was not entirely equal in Divinity to the father
05:2405:24 - um so uh kind of depending how far you take that that’s either he is Divine but somehow not equal um in status or he
05:3305:33 - simply isn’t Divine at all um so he for example believing he was just a human being um but as I say these are the
05:4105:41 - false positions and we are defining our understanding of the trinity in terms of what these are not so unlike these false
05:4805:48 - positions we believe that the Bible teaches that all three members of the Trinity are co-equal partakers of the
05:5405:54 - same Essence that is there is no difference in status between the three persons of the Trinity so this is sort
06:0206:02 - of the point that we’re setting out to discuss in this lesson here and uh kind of given that introduction Audi is there
06:0806:08 - anything you want to say um as we get into this topic no I think you covered it pretty well all
06:1806:18 - right so perhaps the easiest of these uh Notions to grasp is this idea of status and so as seen in the rank accorded to
06:3006:30 - each in the formula for profession of Faith the point of spiritual baptism into the body of Christ it’s kind of a
06:3506:35 - mouthful but this is the Great Commission at the end of Matthew chapter 28 um that is when Jesus Is Telling um
06:4406:44 - the disciples uh kind of how to baptize people into the body of Christ spiritually speaking um so in that
06:5106:51 - profession here um which is very very clearly deal dealing with the concept of authority um that is um this
07:0007:00 - uh it’s the right way to say it it’s not like a a magic incantation um but this formula through which uh baptism was
07:0907:09 - rendered um and again we’ve emphasized continually that the preposition in these verses is into not in um so not in
07:1707:17 - the name of but into the name of into the person of God that is the focus is on spiritual baptism into the body of
07:2407:24 - Christ rather than uh merely being cleansed with water physically um well in this profession which turns very much
07:3307:33 - on Authority the father and the son and the spirit are given completely equal billing um and so that is basically uh
07:4107:41 - the purpose of including these verses at the end of Matthew chapter 28 is showing that when we uh are discussing the three
07:5007:50 - members of the Trinity um here in context for the purpose of uh kind of like in the authority of of God um
07:5807:58 - that’s how we are saying we um are rendering a person uh United with the body of Christ you know it’s not on our
08:0608:06 - own authority um but it is on the authority of God that we do this well all three members of the Trinity are
08:1308:13 - spoken of as basically having equal status here um they are spoken of as having the authority uh by which this
08:2108:21 - action is performed AI do you have anything you want to add to this yeah um not much really
08:3008:30 - um sorry um I think it’s uh it’s quite sufficient
08:3708:37 - to say like you said that uh the Matthew 28 verse um vers 19 to 20 uh
08:5008:50 - uh passage really does speak to um spiritual baptism we have Ephesians 4 I think verse two or three um guaranteeing
09:0409:04 - that because it essentially says there’s one baptism only and uh we have to decide whether that is the baptism of
09:1009:10 - water or it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit and Acts chapter one tells us through the words of the Lord Jesus
09:1909:19 - himself that um we are um although although John’s baptism was the baptism of water his baptism was that of the
09:3009:30 - spirit um so we have multiple places in the Bible that tell us that the baptism that Jesus was speaking to had to be the
09:4009:40 - baptism of the spirit and that’s critical to understand Matthew 19 verse Matthew 28: 19 and 20 um if we
09:5009:50 - appreciate that there is just one baptism and that that is what the Lord Jesus is speaking to then we will know
09:5609:56 - this is not um three of course this is hardly an issue I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone uh being confused about
10:0610:06 - whether Jesus was saying were to have three separate baptisms obviously he was talking about one and he said it’s it’s
10:1410:14 - in English in the name of the father and of the son and of the spirit I mean if we were to go with the English we’ still
10:2010:20 - say it’s one name of the father and the son and the spirit um not one name of the father another of the son another of
10:2810:28 - the spirit it’s one name and then again if we deal with it according to the Greek and at least the old way of
10:3910:39 - understanding the word name um we would know it’s talking about the
10:4510:45 - person persons of the father and the son and the spirit and what that would point out to us is that Jesus is saying that
10:5610:56 - essentially you are baptized into three persons now if they’re not all equal it would be demeaning to have one
11:0511:05 - associated with the other two inferior ones so it seems pretty straightforward that
11:1311:13 - uh this baptism of the spirit essentially means that we are being associated with the Trinity with three
11:2311:23 - persons who are utterly equal to each other and there is no you said inferiority between them yeah that’s now
11:3311:33 - I think this point of the name here being singular uh we’ll get to that like I said all of these things that we’re
11:4011:40 - talking about they’re all related to each other and it’s not like we need to draw artificial barriers of separation
11:4711:47 - between our discussion of the Trinity we’re just looking at it from multiple angles um but just to rip on this a bit
11:5411:54 - the fact that there’s one name goes right in accordance with this point that just brought up about uh if one member
12:0112:01 - were above the others it would be demeaning um for this profession to be kind of stated in equality here well but
12:0912:09 - even more so if they share the same name if they share the same name because there’s one name here name in Greek in
12:1712:17 - this verse is singular it’s not plural and the name is obviously shared between the three members of the Trinity because
12:2412:24 - the word for name is not repeated three times in the Greek um that is it’s not the name the father and the name of the
12:2912:29 - son and the name of the Holy Spirit as if there were three names there is one name here and for God to be represented
12:3712:37 - by the single name how could it be that one member of the Trinity um were greater than the
12:4612:46 - others yet they all share the same uh the same name the same identifier um I just you know I I think that’s
12:5512:55 - another inferential argument you know especially in so far as as I mentioned that this verse is talking about
13:0113:01 - Authority right um you know we are yes we are baptizing them into the person of God and and through that teaching them
13:1113:11 - um you know like after they become members of the body of Christ teaching them to observe everything um you know
13:1813:18 - as we’ve said before um the Bible presupposes these things it states these things it doesn’t argue for them um and
13:2513:25 - this is a prime example of that very true so the next topic that we are going to
13:3413:34 - discuss here uh sort of on the shared equality and Eternity and substance of God is kind of talking about this idea
13:4413:44 - of Eternal function of deity uh the actions that God takes within creation so the verse that Dr luginbill uses in
13:5213:52 - the study uh is talking about creation um and you know what you can actually see typo in the slides here I copied the
14:0114:01 - scripture quotation here and then I changed the verse but I didn’t change out the verse up here so this is wrong
14:0614:06 - this is in Genesis of course um here let me Google this real quick and uh I’m sure it’s Genesis one probably 126 yeah
14:1614:16 - so that’s what that header should be I’ll fix that before I post them um so quoting Genesis chap 1 verse 26 not
14:2614:26 - Matthew 28 again um when God says this let us make Mankind in our image in our likeness so note the first person plural
14:3614:36 - here um and of course Audie and I have discussed this before in our recordings here on the Trinity uh this is one of
14:4414:44 - those things uh where God being plural in the Hebrew Elohim um not God singular um you know perhaps the the Jews or the
14:5414:54 - early Jews thought of it as a plural of majesty you might have heard that grammatical notion before uh is made
15:0115:01 - plural to show how great and Majestic God was but it also kind of leaves that question mark at the back of one’s head
15:0815:08 - of well what does it mean for God to be plural um and then that’s of course where the Trinity and the explicit
15:1515:15 - teaching of the New Testament helps fill this in for us but where we’re going with this in terms of the Eternal
15:2115:21 - function of deity in terms of the activity of deity is that the three members of the trinity all participated
15:2915:29 - within creation um in fact we can see this um uh if you recall in the first couple verses of Genesis you know in the
15:3815:38 - beginning God created the heavens and the Earth um we know from various places in Scripture that Jesus Christ was the
15:4415:44 - agent in creation that’s what John chapter 1 uh the first few verses of the Gospel of John tells us um so Jesus
15:5215:52 - Christ was the agent but then we have and the spirit of God was hovering over the waters first several verses of
15:5715:57 - Genesis still spirit is involved too um you know especially in so far as he is the one uh within creation who is
16:0716:07 - presently restraining evil um so when the Restraint of the holy spirit is removed I believe it’s first
16:1516:15 - Thessalonians or second Thessalonians I don’t remember which one um that talks about the removal of restraint um well
16:2316:23 - things are going to happen on account of that um Holy Spirit active role in maintaining the order within creation
16:3116:31 - and of course everything handled under the authority of the father uh the planner the architect um so this is an
16:4016:40 - example here in Genesis chapter 1 verse 26 ignore this um talking about the creation of man specifically but it also
16:4816:48 - holds for creation generally it also holds for uh God’s plan in the Redemption of mankind um so just as
16:5716:57 - another example um the when Jesus Paid for human sin upon the cross obviously um the son in the Trinity fully God yet
17:0817:08 - fully man um Peter tells us that he bore our sins upon his body on the tree um but that was only made possible through
17:1617:16 - the Holy Spirit and the father was the one who accepted the payment so um we might aduce multiple other examples
17:2417:24 - where all three members of the Trinity play this crucial active role in the working out of God’s plan throughout
17:3417:34 - human history throughout creation um and so this is what we mean by they have an equal share in the Eternal function of
17:4117:41 - deity um they are all uh God in so far as and and they all share equality in so far as when God
17:5117:51 - affects his plans all of them have an equal role to play even if it is not the same role um so so in this way there
18:0018:00 - isn’t any difference in status there isn’t any difference in the activity of deity um as if for example one person in
18:0818:08 - the Trinity uh has to do all the things while the other people in the Trinity aren’t involved somehow um and just to
18:1618:16 - keep pushing this idea of how different this is for us as humans right no matter what within Human Relationships there’s
18:2318:23 - kind of a give and take maybe it in any given point in time um so anyone who’s ever worked on a group project in school
18:3018:30 - knows exactly what I’m talking about um does everyone completely equally pull their
18:3618:36 - weight you know even if we do our best even if the other members in your group are not lacking in their
18:4318:43 - motivation inevitably it’s just it doesn’t happen however that is because we are humans not God and God in his
18:5218:52 - plans always operates in unity between the three members of the Trinity um mm
19:0119:01 - yeah so the passage you mentioned earlier was actually 2 Thessalonians chapter 2 um about the working of the
19:1019:10 - holy spirit so I don’t think there’s very much else to say the Bible does annunciate on every I mean I think that
19:1819:18 - that passage in Genesis chapter one is it’s it’s a brilliant light on it let us make man in our own image I’ve heard
19:2719:27 - Jo Witnesses argue that that was God speaking to the angels which was very interesting very interesting argument to
19:3419:34 - make that God would essentially be what um enlisting the angels in the creation of man but then it goes along with their
19:4419:44 - own um conception of Jesus Christ as a god even though of course they don’t publicly wed themselves to polytheism
19:5519:55 - they don’t believe in multiple gods except that Jesus has to be one in order for John chapter one verse one to make
20:0120:01 - some sense to them so I I think um the Bible enunciates on every page I mean uh I think it’s um
20:1420:14 - Isaiah chapter 9 where it talks about the spirit of God the spirit of this the spirit of that and all of the all of
20:2120:21 - that being upon um um
20:2820:28 - the anointed one so we see multiple things multiple places in the Bible I I think it’s worth
20:4020:40 - repeating that we’re not we’re not making uh would I say an argue on I don’t know how to put that but
20:5120:51 - because yes we are making making an argument yes that that teaching is being developed but essentially
20:5820:58 - this is this is the say the Bible says this and that and that and that’s why we claim this so it’s not like oh there’s a
21:0721:07 - trinity and now we have to go to the Bible to make a case for it it’s more like if you read the Bible it basically
21:1721:17 - presents the Trinity as a given and in functionality we see the same thing it it takes a lot of work like um I think
21:2621:26 - that there is there are probably better ways that one can demonstrate how much work it takes
21:3321:33 - to dismiss this than what the Jehovah’s Witnesses had to do they basically had to retranslate the Bible to eliminate
21:4321:43 - evidence of the Trinity and to recast basically a number of doctrines
21:5221:52 - but particularly the Trinity that’s one thing that they take a lot of issue with and you find that even with their
21:5921:59 - retranslating of the Bible they can’t get away from it they still have to deal with it I should add
22:0622:06 - that this translation business that we’re talking about it’s not merely that they made some different interpretive
22:1222:12 - choices here they mistranslate according to objective principles of grammar shall we say you know they do violence to the
22:2222:22 - translation and like AI said still kind of has to be like that to make things work Con
22:2822:28 - um and we pointed this out before um you know and I think it’s very good that we’re emphasizing it that the Bible
22:3522:35 - speaks as if it is true in fact the better way to put it is if any of these points that we’re going over in this
22:4122:41 - entire series uh you can kind of prove them through what is typically known as redu you ad absurdum if you say this
22:4922:49 - point is false and then you go try to read passages in the Bible it just doesn’t work um so this point that we’re
22:5622:56 - on right here if if you try to say that somehow uh all members of the Trinity are God and they’re all somehow equal to
23:0423:04 - each other but they aren’t equal to each other in the Eternal function of deity in the salvation of mankind in the
23:1223:12 - working out of God’s plan throughout human history then in what sense can they be said to be equal how how do all
23:1723:17 - these passages that talk about the various things that the members of the Trinity have done throughout human
23:2223:22 - history how do those work then um you know and of course there are things we don’t know like so for example um just
23:3123:31 - as we humans have a hard time seeing in human relationships like for example that between a commanding officer in the
23:3823:38 - military and his soldiers is there equality there uh given that one of them has adopted in their position the one
23:4623:46 - giving orders right um and I think maybe this is maybe this is something worth discussing a bit um in so far as within
23:5423:54 - the roles of the Trinity the father is typically seen as has put it before as the representation of deity um as the
24:0224:02 - one who plays the part of deity uh to the world um so that’s why he is in the third heaven separated from sin um
24:1124:11 - because he is the face of deity shall we say um but these roles that do exist um it’s not uh one of a difference in
24:2224:22 - status um it is merely a role um and we will talk about rol of the Trinity more that is a future topic of conversation
24:3124:31 - so we sh get too sidetracked here but where we’re going with this again is simply that if you start removing uh
24:3924:39 - kind of like I think the game’s called Jenga right where you remove blocks and once you remove enough blocks the tower
24:4524:45 - just inevitably falls down um most of these things that we’re talking about you don’t even have to remove a bunch of
24:5224:52 - them before it stops working you just remove one or two and suddenly large parts of the Bible spe specifically the
24:5824:58 - New Testament just don’t make sense anymore there is no way to reconcile the passages uh I mean you can do your best
25:0525:05 - to go through interpretive gymnastics to explain how this actually means that and whatnot but it just it just obviously
25:1225:12 - doesn’t feel right and that’s what happens when you start trying to Monkey around with fundamental conceptions of
25:2025:20 - three persons one essence or one Ence three persons it just makes large parts of the interpretation of New Testament
25:2725:27 - Passage that that mentions the members of the Trinity just no longer work
25:3425:34 - yeah yeah and I I I I I don’t think we can go through every single instance um where the Bible demonstrates the um
25:4625:46 - Eternal function of each member of the Trinity but like he just said if anyone
25:5525:55 - bothers to do the the SoCal well the scientific test of um trying to falsify the arguments that we are making
26:0826:08 - essentially and we go okay the spirit is not he’s not um a member of the Trinity because
26:1926:19 - his function does not fit or something like that then you start to interpret everything that the Bible says that the
26:2826:28 - spirit actually does in terms of that the whole Bible becomes nearly chaotic and
26:3926:39 - insensate that’s what would happen do the same to the Lord Jesus and this is actually why this is one way that you
26:4526:45 - can very quickly tell what um um uh religions or sects are really not Christian even if they claim to be
26:5826:58 - let’s use the ones we’ve named for example jov’s Witnesses they reject the Holy Spirit as a person refuse to accept
27:0727:07 - the Lord Jesus as God so let’s talk about how that works in terms of the work of
27:1627:16 - Salvation who what are we being saved from sin against to God and how are we to be saved from sin do they accept that
27:2827:28 - the Bible says essentially that we’re in helpless situation we cannot redeem our own selves we are
27:3627:36 - all have fallen short of Grace there is no we cannot fix what we have broken it’s broken it’s spilled milk there’s
27:4527:45 - nothing we can do about it okay so if we accept that to be true and I believe the translation of the
27:5127:51 - Bible does next thing we have to ask is how then is this um um damage in our relationship to God
28:0228:02 - to be fixed well God has to do something himself according to the Bible I am your savior and there is no
28:1628:16 - savior besides me that’s what the Bible says God himself claimed that he is the only one who is the savior that makes
28:2228:22 - sense it makes sense because who else is going to save us now they claim that some Angel was able to save us
28:3128:31 - okay how is an Angel going to be able to save us exactly what is the sacrifice that
28:3928:39 - require to save us it has to be a sacrifice that matches the sin talking about from God’s
28:4728:47 - perspective there is nothing nothing that we can do nothing that we can offer the way that the Bible puts essentially
28:5628:56 - is that a man can not save himself by with his own life or and he cannot pay the price for
29:0229:02 - another that’s how I think it’s in some I don’t remember the the chapter now so we are in a very bad a very bad spot and
29:1229:12 - essentially we have learned whatever needs to be done is going to be massive an ordinary human being can do
29:1929:19 - it why do we think an angel would be able to pay the price for our set especially given that there is only
29:2929:29 - one Savior and there is none discip so Jesus comes and he dies on the cross and somehow that is
29:4029:40 - enough we are still looking at the part of the Bible that I think is also translated correctly in their own Bible
29:4729:47 - which says that there is no savior besides me God how then do we reconcile the fact that someone’s sacrifice was
29:5629:56 - able to save us if that person is not God we start to have craziness and of course the enter the
30:0530:05 - gymnastics which is essentially oh no no no no he’s not the the Savior it’s because someone else sent him that that
30:1130:11 - person is the real savior he’s just the tool for the Salvation okay so he can’t claim to be the Savior what about
30:1730:17 - Matthew chapter 1 Matthew chapter 1 essentially says he will be called Jesus because he will save his people from
30:2430:24 - their sins so essentially he’s going to be called SA that’s literally what his name is okay
30:3030:30 - so how do you make sense of that no no no no it doesn’t really mean this and that so basically let’s forget what the
30:3630:36 - Bible says to accommodate what you say what about the holy spirit Bible tells us that it is through him that this
30:4430:44 - eternal sacrifice was offered I think how how was it put who through the eternal spirit offered himself up that’s
30:5130:51 - how the Bible said it was not Eternal sacrifice it was through the eternal spirit this sacrifice was made the
30:5730:57 - eternal spirit what a word what a term to use now remove the spirit from this
31:0531:05 - picture remove him as a person now you’ve already come into a lot of trouble just by doing that the claim of
31:1231:12 - the holy spirit is not even a person much less a member of the Trinity so if we were to adopt that mindset that he is
31:2031:20 - not a person he is not um uh a member of the Trinity then what about everything that the Bible
31:3031:30 - says about his part in Salvation the fact that he convicts us of sin now this is an impersonal Force
31:3931:39 - somehow able to persuade us that we are sinful very interesting thing to do but of course they try to use the loophole
31:4931:49 - that he is God’s Force so he’s not a a person he’s just something that God us uses to mess with with our consciences
31:5831:58 - and get us to appreciate that we’re sinful people and then Jesus himself was going to pay a terrible price on the
32:0832:08 - cross and he was going to do it through this Force I mean at a certain point we are
32:1532:15 - in sci-fi land where things don’t seem to be what they are they they they don’t make sense so that’s what happens once
32:2532:25 - we start looking at things from perspective of trying to falsify the Trinity once we
32:3232:32 - remove the the claims of the Bible that the that Jesus is God that the holy spirit is not only a person but also God
32:4232:42 - himself all of a sudden a lot of things that would otherwise have made sense become
32:5032:50 - nonsensical and that is why the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t really believe for all their claim and they do
32:5832:58 - claim it they don’t really believe that reconciliation to God results from the sacrifice of Jesus they believe it comes
33:0733:07 - from the works that they do now there’s another set that works exactly the same way the Roman Catholic
33:1633:16 - church talk a good game but because they don’t appreciate exactly who did what they end up in a place where they talk
33:2533:25 - about Grace as if it were asert would put it angel dust that is sprinkled on you to make you look good so essentially
33:3633:36 - it’s it’s this thing that that that is sprinkled on you it’s not that God has given you a gracious gift that is an
33:4533:45 - extremely generous person who has brought you back into fellowship with him in spite of the fact that you have
33:5133:51 - done everything wrong and caused yourself to be out of fellowship with him no it’s this sprinkling of angel
33:5933:59 - dust on you to make you good and what you’re supposed to do is continue to take the sacraments and do this and that
34:0734:07 - to keep the grace flowing once you cut out the functions that is essentially saying what this
34:1634:16 - person does as God Almighty everything starts to fall out and just basically enter chaos and
34:2734:27 - Madness it doesn’t make sense anymore it doesn’t matter that you claim to believe that your your sin was paid for by
34:3334:33 - Jesus’s sacrifice you don’t even know who Jesus is you don’t even know who made the sacrifice possible and
34:3834:38 - therefore in the end you assume a lot of responsibility for something you are completely unable to do I mean let me
34:4534:45 - just jump in I don’t I don’t want to completely interrupt your flow but just say a couple sentences what we’re
34:5134:51 - talking about with respect to atonement Theory salvation itself this is one of of those Eternal functions of deity that
34:5834:58 - human beings uh you you’ve gone through this um in the way that you’ve approached talking about how these sects
35:0535:05 - they get things wrong here right but one of the things that’s so pervasive about legalism is that human beings somehow
35:1435:14 - are claiming that they have the function of Salvation just think about how insane that is right and this is why we call it
35:2035:20 - the the magic Grace dust that somehow by what we do we can have that Grace flowing from God rather than it being
35:3035:30 - God himself and and and like we said for all appearances for all accounts people will say this with their lips but then
35:3735:37 - it’s a matter of what do their positions imply how do they have to read certain passages in the Bible to make it not
35:4435:44 - contradict actually it’s one of those things that sometimes I never understand because some of what we’re talking about
35:4935:49 - like you said even though the Jehovah’s Witnesses butcher certain parts of their translation it still gets you most of
35:5635:56 - the way there like you know like you can argue with them in their translation and you can still get to the point where you
36:0436:04 - kind of need the Trinity same deal you know the Roman Catholics they don’t even mutilate the Bible um it’s one of those
36:1036:10 - things where all these verses well Roman Catholics for the most part have those same verses in their Bibles too right um
36:1736:17 - yeah how does it work you know that but you know people manag to twist it somehow or another and it’s part of that
36:2536:25 - is by imputing some of these things that are functions of God Alone to things other than God right to sacraments or
36:3436:34 - salvation or priests although the Catholic church is like less blatant about that nowadays like as in they’ve
36:4236:42 - backed off a little bit from you have to be a member of the Catholic Church otherwise you’re not even saved and you
36:4736:47 - have to take Catholic mass every Sunday otherwise you’re not even saved and things like that because you know that’s
36:5236:52 - bad PR but um that sort of thing yeah what does that have to do with our record Being set straight in the eyes of
37:0037:00 - the almighty it just doesn’t of course of course that’s that’s exactly the point that once we we lose sight of of
37:0837:08 - the function of the persons each person of the holy of the of the Trinity what what essentially results is that Madness
37:1637:16 - and that chaos one thing that just occurred to me as you were speaking was also the fact that when it comes to to
37:2537:25 - what scientific this is another place to that you see what a world view of the Trinity can do to you now we we hear
37:3537:35 - this in the Bible he that is in you is greater than he that is in the world right that is really really big thing to
37:4337:43 - say and in fact this is why being a believer in these days after the cross is such an amazing thing that for the
37:5037:50 - first time um since human history after Jesus died we know have God basically residing in US permanently that’s a very
38:0138:01 - big deal so you have God in you but because obviously the holy spirit is not God you can see what what results from
38:1238:12 - people just ignoring His function the fact that he is God is why Bible says that he works in you that’s a very
38:2138:21 - interesting thing it actually puts it this way for it is God who works in you both to Will and to do of his own good
38:2738:27 - pleasure so you have God himself residing in you working with you to Will and to do of his good pleasure but now
38:3638:36 - it’s not God it’s just some Force residing in you and what results from that well if I’m going to do good things
38:4538:45 - it’s up to me if I’m going to get anything right it’s up to me you’re not relying on him because after all that’s
38:5338:53 - not God I mean it just but just think about it for a second you know this verse that you quote here on the face of
38:5938:59 - it you could argue that maybe the Holy Spirit was a created thing that just happened to be greater than Satan okay
39:0739:07 - you know like philosophically it works but like you said other places in the Bible talk about God working within us
39:1339:13 - so now you have to argue that God is in us and this other person who’s not God but is yet greater than Satan is also in
39:1939:19 - us right you have to because both of those things are said in scripture right that’s the position you have to take if
39:2739:27 - you don’t believe that the holy spirit is God and then how do you know it’s one versus the other you know like again as
39:3339:33 - we’ve been emphasizing these problems are inescapable the second you start going down that path you bump into them
39:3939:39 - head first um yeah yeah that’s the bottom line really y so you know I’m not we have
39:4839:48 - gone through some good examples I mean I should emphasize that Ai and I we could probably keep going all day here right I
39:5439:54 - know you gave a couple good examples off the top of your head you know of various uh people going down
40:0040:00 - this path to one extent or another but this is the consequence of not accepting the all three members of the
40:0940:09 - deity in full all three members and how they all interact to do these things in the plan of human Redemption um so
40:1840:18 - whether that was uh the sacrifice on the cross sanctification those are two examples we brought up now all three
40:2540:25 - members of the are integral to these things that affect human salvation um and so we can’t be
40:3440:34 - wishy-washy on this right um this is why the Trinity is rightly and properly considered one of the core doctrines of
40:4240:42 - Christianity um there are certain things that maybe we call debatable that you get wrong you can still be a Christian
40:5040:50 - right understanding who Jesus was what he did and the nature of God how is sacrifice was on this is some of the
40:5840:58 - fundamental stuff right yeah so and that is one reason I should emphasize why uh getting one of these things wrong makes
41:0741:07 - a whole bunch of scripture not work right because to a greater or lesser extent right uh we know that everything
41:1341:13 - in the Bible should be interpreted by everything else in the Bible that is the contextual approach we need to take when
41:1941:19 - we interpret scripture but there are certain doctrines when if you get them wrong it messes up a whole lot more
41:2541:25 - things than other right this is one of those that yeah if you get the Trinity wrong it messes up
41:3141:31 - all sorts of things in a way that some other doctrines maybe you get something wrong
41:3741:37 - and it messes up two or three places not the entire New Testament um that’s why we call this core and Central though so
41:4541:45 - yeah that’s true that’s true all right well good discussion here this is why it’s important for us to acknowledge the
41:5441:54 - full share of the activity of God the Eternal function of deity that the members of the Trinity possess because
42:0142:01 - all three are integral so creation is the example in Genesis chapter 1 Dr luganville used we’ve talked also about
42:0742:07 - as I’ve said um about Redemption on the cross as well as sanctification and there’s others as well where God works
42:1442:14 - together the three members of the Trinity to affect his plan for human salvation um so that is where we’ll wrap
42:2242:22 - this one and in the next one we’ll be talking about substance so the last point that we’re going to be
42:3242:32 - making here in this lesson is talking about the equal share in the substance of deity so thus far we’ve talked about
42:3942:39 - status and the Eternal function or activity now we’re talking about substance we don’t want to get too
42:4542:45 - bogged down here in uh maybe what we might call the technical jargony specifics um but the verse that Dr
42:5442:54 - lugabill uses for this one comes from 2 Corinthians chapter 13:14 and this is one of those
43:0143:01 - benedictions now those of you who’ve watched this series all the way through um might remember it might be more
43:0743:07 - recent in your memory where some of the verses that we included upfront in our discussion of the Trinity we talked
43:1343:13 - about how it comes up in uh the benedictions as here um and kind of the salutations the the greetings and
43:2143:21 - letters um you know so for example in the very first part of 1 Peter chapter 1 um we hear a mention of all three
43:3043:30 - members of the Trinity um chosen according to the for knowledge of God the Father through the sanctifying work
43:3643:36 - of the spirit to be obedient to Jesus Christ all through members of the Trinity right um but here specifically
43:4243:42 - looking at this idea of substance of deity this is what Dr L bill says so as seen from the attribution of goodness to
43:5043:50 - all three members in the apostolic benediction of 2 Corinthians so um if you recall one of the so-called
43:5743:57 - essential characteristics of God that we discussed previously was that God is good uh that is a characteristic of
44:0644:06 - deity um of the essence of God and so this verse is talking about what we shall call manifestations of goodness so
44:1544:15 - Grace is the policy of the goodness of God right we talked about that already love is the natural consequence or
44:2244:22 - emanation of the goodness of God and fellowship is the ultimate result of the goodness of God all of these are
44:2944:29 - respectively here attributed to the son the father and the Holy Spirit and the benediction so the grace of the Lord
44:3644:36 - Jesus Christ the love of the father um I guess we’re saying that that is implied right um because we have Lord God and
44:4544:45 - then Spirit right we like you know cuos is the word for Lord in Greek and that refers to Jesus Christ and I’m assuming
44:5244:52 - I don’t have the Greek in front of me but I’m assuming this is Theos and this is is numos the the word for Spirit um
44:5944:59 - sorry Numa it’s neuter um and so those probably be the words here but all three members of the Trinity have this
45:0845:08 - characteristic goodness that Define them as God of all sharing that Essence uh which has as one of its characteristics
45:1645:16 - goodness um as an essential quality of deity um so if this sounds familiar it kind of should um because as I said all
45:2545:25 - of these things are uh kind of uh they all support each other right we’re not trying to say new things here we are
45:3345:33 - just coming at this discussion of the Trinity from all the angles we possibly can and so when we talked about the
45:3945:39 - essence of God before we were establishing what the essence of God was what we are now doing in this particular
45:4545:45 - lesson that we’ve been going through this time was establishing that all three members of the Trinity now that we
45:5145:51 - have uh determined that there are in fact three persons in the Trinity well all of them equally share in the
45:5845:58 - consequences uh in the essential characteristics of the essence of God because as we’ll see in the next lesson
46:0546:05 - that we go through all three of them are equal partakers in that Divine Essence so that’s where we get the three persons
46:1246:12 - one Essence from right now we’ve been going through how all of them have the same status Eternal function or activity
46:1946:19 - and substance coming about because they all share that same Essence which is what we’ll cover in the next one but on
46:2646:26 - account of that this verse goes right through and says that all three members of the Trinity um have this eternal
46:3446:34 - quality of goodness um in the way that Dr lville has kind of filled in here and that’s why we say that all of them
46:4146:41 - possess that equal share in the substance of deity any points to Riff on here
46:4846:48 - Audie I’ve been trying to think um I’ll admit this bit is a bit more complex for me but it it does make sense how he laid
46:5746:57 - things out that Grace is the policy of the goodness of God it’s the generosity of God
47:0347:03 - um I mean God did have the right as God to withhold his generosity I mean essentially because he is God the
47:1347:13 - creation he makes exists at his whims so he didn’t have any need whatsoever to do anything for anyone was not under any
47:2247:22 - obligation to do so but Grace essentially is saying um even if I’m not obliged to do anything for you now we’re
47:3147:31 - talking whether just in the in the business of first creation or it is um in the business of redemption
47:4247:42 - Redemption was after sin the business of first creation was before sin um we see that Grace play out in the particular
47:5047:50 - way for example that God even caused us to exist in the first place was an act of generosity if we didn’t exist we
47:5847:58 - wouldn’t have any opportunity whatsoever to enjoy and experience the Marvel that is God and God is marvelous and he is an
48:0948:09 - amazing gift that you know to be given um so if if he did not create us and share
48:1948:19 - himself with us or offer us this opportunity to be with him then I mean he didn’t have to and he did it anyway
48:2848:28 - and we sin we fall short of that generosity of his and he does not deem it necessary or even right to just wipe
48:4048:40 - out creation he could do that doesn’t have to tolerate our sinfulness but he still goes on to
48:4748:47 - redeem us to offer us again an opportunity to be part of his eternal family to enjoy him forever which is
48:5748:57 - amazing right so all of this um it’s the goodness of God in the sense that that is how God actually defines his goodness
49:0549:05 - as deity himself it doesn’t have to be that way so but as we know if deity was not like this then nothing would exist
49:1449:14 - that’s actually how that works so um then the the the love of the father I actually tend to find myself edging in
49:2349:23 - the direction of how God is love and basically I Define all of God’s character in terms of his love but it
49:3049:30 - does make sense too to see um love as a natural consequence of the goodness of God so instead of being the call from
49:3849:38 - which this goodness is actually demonstrated it’s it’s a consequence of that goodness because God is innately
49:4649:46 - good because he is innately good I don’t think there’s any other way I mean and of course the purpose of this particular
49:5449:54 - one was to show how all three members of the Trinity possess the goodness characteristic of
50:0050:00 - God um they possess it equally right um and how it works out so that we can say that there isn’t there’s no inequality
50:0850:08 - there is no one person of the Trinity gets it while the other doesn’t that is kind of the purpose of this lesson in
50:1450:14 - the series yeah that that’s that’s the point here I think that the reason like I said what I’m actually exploring is
50:2050:20 - the complexity of this uh passage in my mind you know well is God good because he loves us or does God love us because
50:3050:30 - he’s good I mean you know it’s one of those things where you’re right the Bible says that God is good and the
50:3750:37 - Bible says that God loves us and so yeah you know a very human thing to try to start to to go through right but yeah
50:4550:45 - but but when when the the point that um you know the grace of the Lord Jesus the love of the of God and The Fellowship of
50:5250:52 - the holy spirit all come together is that that is uh pretty obvious because again it’s like the name of the father
51:0051:00 - and the son and the spirit thing when you associate three persons in this manner
51:0751:07 - you’re essentially putting them on a level it’s very hard to say things like um uh May the kindness of the president
51:1651:16 - and um the generosity of uh maybe the the chief of Army staff or something I mean by the time you start counting down
51:2651:26 - it’s like why are you putting all these people together I mean if I have the kindness of the president I don’t need
51:3351:33 - to have the generosity of the chief of Army staff because the president covers that right so but when you have um the
51:4351:43 - love of of of the Lord Jesus and you have the the um sorry the grace of the Lord Jesus and the love of God the
51:5151:51 - Father And The Fellowship of the holy spirit is essentially saying all the these three have to agree and they they
51:5951:59 - they have to agree in the sense that the three of them are separate persons and their Authority is equal to each other
52:0752:07 - so it makes sense to think of it in that way well let me not do too much exploration of this but it’s something
52:1452:14 - that has been playing out in my head for a while yeah now I will say of course as we we went through a good bit in the
52:2152:21 - last one how everything falls apart uh in interpreting the trinity you know in finding in scripture if you ignore
52:2752:27 - certain bits of it but this one I think is so false just on the face of it imagine if you were to argue that one
52:3452:34 - member of the Trinity was not inherently good just think about it right it’s complete nonsense how how how can that
52:4252:42 - even work given what we know from scripture right that absolutely if only the father and the son wanted the best
52:4852:48 - for us and somehow the spirit didn’t you know like come on who who would Empower everything right and and of course it
52:5452:54 - would not make sense and light of the scriptures given what the spirit has done sure you know I don’t think people
53:0153:01 - that’s not their Vector of attack most of the time right but that’s what we mean when we say they share the
53:0553:05 - substance of deity right because the same thing holds for all of the other characteristics of God that we talked
53:1153:11 - about if you say that I mean for example that the father and the spirit are Eternal but not the son because the son
53:1853:18 - took on a human nature that’s actually a much more common attack that is getting at this one here right that they are you
53:2553:25 - know consubstantial because what this is getting at is that the son is co-eternal
53:2953:29 - with the father and the spirit right you know again that’s what we’re going through here co-equal co-eternal
53:3453:34 - consubstantial if you say that the son doesn’t have the same substance as the father and the spirit he’s not God in
53:4153:41 - the same way so to speak then people start throwing out eternity you know like the the um eternality of the Sun
53:5053:50 - the second person of the Trinity and then you get all sorts of theological problems so yeah um sort of they’re not
53:5653:56 - made of the same substance I think that was why I was actually interested in complexity of this thing because but I
54:0354:03 - think the point that he is making essentially is that if we were to describe God in terms of a substance he
54:1054:10 - is good that’s his substance his goodness and we see that through Grace Jesus is is is associated with that
54:1954:19 - substance he he has it and through love the father has it through fellowship and all of these things are like three
54:2854:28 - emanations or three sort of like like I mean he used the word policy in another place examination and in another place
54:3654:36 - he says the result but all of them are like the outworking in some way of this goodness of God this substance this
54:4354:43 - thing and it makes sense too given that Jesus did say no one is good but God that is like at the core definition of
54:5154:51 - what God is in terms of his substance there’s also life of course but then I think this makes sense you can use this
54:5854:58 - to see like you said that all three of them um share in this substance and you cannot speak of God being good and
55:0855:08 - somehow remove Jesus from that okay I think that that that that has called something back to mind for me um there’s
55:1755:17 - often that argument that Jesus never claimed to be God because there’s this passage where he said no no one is no
55:2555:25 - one is good except God and they say well if he was God he would have said there that he you know except me or accept God
55:3455:34 - and me or something but then Jesus didn’t say he wasn’t good he said no one is good but God and once you once you
55:4555:45 - you you take into account another thing too that he said in another place which of you can accuse me of sin that was a
55:5255:52 - very big claim he was making I don’t have any sin so I am good there you go too so when you put these things
56:0156:01 - together it does lead to the fact that to the extent that we’re seeing that God’s substance is this goodness Jesus
56:1056:10 - shares in it so does the spirit so does the father and if you were to eliminate any of them from this like you said a
56:1956:19 - lot of things in the Bible would no longer make sense would on the particular passage of Jesus saying that
56:2656:26 - only God is good it’s actually it’s kind of fun to think about it now that you brought it to mind Jesus could it would
56:3256:32 - have been factually correct to say that he was himself good because he was because he’s God but from a theological
56:3856:38 - perspective actually his statement is very true in that God all three members of the Trinity are good right absolutely
56:4656:46 - and we see that right there right now um so it would have been fine if Jesus had said that he was good because that’s a
56:5056:50 - true statement it’s also a true statement that God is good what’s interesting is that God is good is
56:5656:56 - actually broader than Jesus is good because all three members of the Trinity are God um so exactly
57:0357:03 - exactly yeah okay that’s my spio right all right well that’s where we’ll cut here so just as with the
57:1257:12 - function Eternal function of deity the activity of deity all three members of the Trinity possess equally this so we
57:1957:19 - have them being co-equal co-eternal and consubstantial there isn’t any difference in status in terms of how
57:2757:27 - they function in terms of the characteristics of God they share that has been the focus that we’ve had in
57:3457:34 - this lesson so just to recap the lesson that we’ve gone over this week we have been
57:4257:42 - talking about how even though there are three distinct persons in the Trinity that does not mean that there’s any
57:4957:49 - inferiority or disparity of status activity or substance between them um that God shared s in all of this the
57:5657:56 - members of the Trinity are co-eternal and co-equal and consubstantial um and so in this we’ve
58:0358:03 - gone through the status of deity um they all have the authority of God they are all mentioned here in the Great
58:1158:11 - Commission um as being the person in whom we are baptized mentioned in the same breath um we went over how Genesis
58:2058:20 - 126 um uh when God talks about the creation of man that it is something that all three members of the Trinity
58:2758:27 - have this hand in so too with our Redemption and also our sanctification and other processes of Salvation shall
58:3658:36 - we say uh within God’s plan for creation all members of the Trinity have this core part to play um and we also talked
58:4458:44 - about how all three members of the Trinity share the same substance they have those essential characteristics um
58:5058:50 - goodness was the example we used here um but some of the things relating to God’s nature as well for example his Infinity
58:5858:58 - um so his his omnipotence his omnipresence his omniscience all three of those things apply to all members of
59:0459:04 - the Trinity and that’s what it means for them to be consubstantial to have the same substance so this is what we have
59:1059:10 - been going over in this lesson here in the next lesson we will be talking more specifically about this one Essence bit
59:1959:19 - so we have now talked about the three person bit right that was the lesson before this one establish ing that there
59:2559:25 - are three distinct persons in the Trinity the next time we’re going to be talking about how they share one Essence
59:3159:31 - uh AKA why we don’t worship three Gods but why we worship one God in three persons that is what we are going to be
59:3959:39 - talking about next time