Illustrating the Trinity

Video/audio transcript

00:0000:00 - all right guys so this week in our lesson we are going to be talking about illustrating the Trinity so
00:0600:06 - illustrations for the kind of the concept and the doctrine of the Trinity and so these are the points that we’re
00:1400:14 - going to be going over today we’re going to be talking about kind of how attempting to use illustrations for the
00:1900:19 - Trinity is always somewhat perilous just because uh the Trinity is God God is divine there is nothing like him in this
00:2800:28 - created world so that means just simple what’s the right word uh uh kind of process of elimination if
00:3800:38 - there’s nothing like God well then necessarily all illustrations will lack some comparative power all of them will
00:4500:45 - be necessarily imperfect um and so on account of that we just need to be very very careful that we don’t Place Focus
00:5200:52 - here on these and we don’t try to draw doctrinal conclusions off of it and things like that and so actually this
00:5900:59 - this section in the study it’s not so much teaching it’s not so much trying to explain the trinity in terms of these
01:0601:06 - illustrations as it is trying to show how these illustrations are sort of necessarily insufficient and so um we’ll
01:1401:14 - kind of see what that means a little bit more as we go on today but we’re going to start off with a very early
01:1901:19 - illustration this comes up in the early church the so-called Trinity triangle which is just a visual representation of
01:2501:25 - what we have already said that uh the father is God Jesus is God the spirit is God but the father is not the son or the
01:3301:33 - spirit the son is not the father or the spirit and the spirit is not the father or the son um you know so the is and is
01:4001:40 - not relationships now we’re going to talk about the family of man so uh mankind the human mind illustrations
01:4801:48 - from the world of nature so this is like physical nature per se uh illustrations from the Physical Realm like light for
01:5601:56 - example or the universe and then at the end we’re going to kind of come back and touch on uh this point that we started
02:0302:03 - with that basically well there you go there are some of the illustrations that have been used across times and places
02:0902:09 - in history to try to help explain the Trinity and uh you shouldn’t be very impressed basically um that is you know
02:1702:17 - we’re going to kind of end where we started on this and uh not so much that we need to like look down our noses at
02:2402:24 - you know anyone who tries to say well just as God is three yet one so to in this other area maybe maybe it helps
02:3202:32 - right but the point is it’s very dangerous to build Doctrine on it that’s going to kind of be the fundamental
02:3702:37 - point that we try to make today all right so the first point uh that we are going to be starting with in
02:4702:47 - our discussion here of illustrations for the Trinity is the kind of initial caveat the initial warning that I
02:5302:53 - mentioned going over how all of these illustrations are sort of going to be necessarily imperfect and so we did kind
03:0103:01 - of touch on this in our previous lesson here that that all attempts here to kind of illustrate such a Doctrine as the
03:0903:09 - Trinity which is so core and Central to our belief um uh just because of the importance of this there is the
03:1703:17 - potential there that this does more harm than good um so if your illustration is even a little bit off-center and people
03:2403:24 - read into it more than they should suddenly you might have harmed their understanding of the trinity because of
03:3003:30 - how important that is that is kind of a very bad thing and so the fundamental problem with illustrations of kind of
03:3803:38 - the type that we’re going to be going over today is that if you take them too far if you put too much stress upon them
03:4503:45 - you do run the real risk of leading to heretical conclusions um and it’s not going to be so direct uh in as much as
03:5403:54 - the second you look at one of these suddenly your entire understanding of God is going to become like overly
03:5903:59 - complicated you’re not going to know heads from tals anymore it’s that basically if you start reading into it
04:0604:06 - if you start trying to make the analogy fit that’s when you’re going to run into problems and so the basic idea here is
04:1404:14 - that uh it’s it’s really more like um we want to make sure that we don’t do more harm than good right that Do no harm
04:2104:21 - principle that doctors sometimes um try to abide by um that is the sort of idea that we are going to be going into this
04:3004:30 - discussion with and uh the fundamental problem kind of mentioned this a little bit in the introduction there was that
04:3704:37 - um the illustrations here are trying to illustrate a Divine being using things from the created realm and nothing in
04:4704:47 - this creation is it all like God we have talked about this previously in discussing God’s Essence um so uh uh his
04:5604:56 - uniqueness um his sovereignty within the material Universe there’s no one else like God there is no other being no
05:0305:03 - other created thing that is at all like him um you know and that’s in regard to his infinite nature and his perfect
05:0905:09 - character as we have gone over in the past here and so that simply means Again by process of or the process of of
05:1705:17 - elimination here that there is absolutely nothing that will serve as a good parallel as a truly good analogy
05:2405:24 - for God is that all of these things will necessarily fall short that doesn’t mean that they’re evil it just means that
05:2905:29 - they’re insufficient and there’s kind of more to this even um Satan attacks the Trinity he always has um Satan’s always
05:3805:38 - looking for ways to kind of interfere with our understanding of of God’s truth and attacking the Divinity of Jesus
05:4605:46 - Christ the Divinity of any members of the Trinity or just the teaching of the trinity in general The three-fold
05:5305:53 - Sovereign personality of God and and the deity of the three persons all of these have always been kind of uh important
06:0006:00 - attack vectors in Satan’s plan because if Satan can compromise someone on these issues they’re just hop skip and a jump
06:0706:07 - away from compromising on what makes us Christian in fact depending on exactly what we mean by compromise getting
06:1406:14 - people to stumble here already uh kind of messes with the core beliefs that we need to hold as Christians and so the
06:2306:23 - problem with all this is that this Triune personality this is exactly the point that illustrations of Trinity Miss
06:3006:30 - like they cannot in any way do this right and so it’s a little bit subtle here right you know rather than Satan uh
06:3806:38 - coming right up to someone and being like the Trinity is false and then most Christians would be kind of uh I guess
06:4706:47 - we we’d be primed to look at someone and say no it isn’t because and and then you know go into an explanation of how the
06:5306:53 - Bible talks about it like we’ve been talking about right it is we’d have a knee-jerk reaction to this but but when
07:0007:00 - someone else instead says the Trinity is like and then presents some example they’re not so much attacking the
07:0707:07 - Trinity headon as they are making this comparison and see this is why it’s a little bit more subtle because if they
07:1507:15 - were attacking the Trinity headon we would recognize it for the challenge to correct doctrine that that such a thing
07:2107:21 - would be but when people instead give what I would call an imperfect comparison maybe we give them the
07:2707:27 - benefit of the doubt more or we don’t recognize it as being dangerous to our own understanding but if we buy into it
07:3507:35 - it is still coloring our understanding of God because fundamentally if the first things out of our mouth are not
07:4107:41 - something along the lines of God is divine and outside of SpaceTime and nothing is like him therefore we
07:5007:50 - basically um trying to think about the right what it says you don’t want to come off as hyper legalistic either the
07:5507:55 - point needs to be nothing can truly compare to God so we need to discuss this Doctrine uh what I would call
08:0108:01 - theologically we need to treat it without kid gloves without trying to rationalize it as this thing that is
08:0808:08 - fundamentally incomprehensible in some sense to us as finite humans and we shouldn’t apologize for that that’s just
08:1308:13 - how it is that’s what it means for God to be an infinite being outside of SpaceTime while we are finite beings
08:2008:20 - within SpaceTime like we’re just never going to completely get it and we need to make peace with that rather than
08:2508:25 - trying to explain it all way so we need to always come in to discussions when such a thing would come up with that
08:3208:32 - being the starting point and we again we shouldn’t we shouldn’t like shame people for it we should just stand firm on the
08:3808:38 - truth and the point that I’m saying here is that the comparisons due to the imperfection that is present in them we
08:4608:46 - need to recognize them as dangerous we need to accept that if we actually look to them for teaching they can mislead us
08:5408:54 - and that is just kind of a different starting point than where some people may land on this thing and that’s why
09:0009:00 - we’re trying to make this point kind of more explicitly up front a do you have any thoughts you want to jump off of
09:0609:06 - anything I said okay so yeah um I think that the bottom line is to keep in mind the
09:1809:18 - danger of using any illustration but as with pretty much anything else in the Bible our job is to
09:2709:27 - learn what the truth is and for us who are teachers our job is to teach and sometimes to teach you have to use
09:3309:33 - imperfect analogies I mean Lord Jesus was always doing that his Parables he would he would talk about things that
09:4109:41 - weren’t exactly the thing he was talking about but there was something in those things that resonated with the realities
09:4709:47 - of which he spoke so for example he would say that the kingdom of God is like um uh Mustard Seed how about
09:5609:56 - mustard seed or I think particular one I was interested in is uh a bit of Leaven that you put in a loaf and it leavens
10:0510:05 - the whole lump you know something like that and you know you could push that really far and you’d have all sorts of
10:1310:13 - problems with it I mean there are people today who are thinking and probably not necessarily because of that um uh that
10:2110:21 - analogy that the kingdom of God is supposed to expand and keep expanding and basically they have this thing we
10:2810:28 - call Dominion theology which is essentially that the world is going to get better and better and the church
10:3310:33 - will eventually consume it before the Lord Jesus will return Lord Jesus will return to a world that has turned to God
10:4010:40 - essentially that’s what some people would make of that but in fact what he was saying was a completely different
10:4510:45 - thing which was it might be small at the moment when he was talking about the population of people who actually were
10:5310:53 - you know walking with the Lord there has always been a very small minority of people throughout the the
10:5910:59 - ages who have been walking with God but what he was saying is that now there was going to be an explosion and what was
11:0711:07 - hither to seemingly confined to Israel was going to spread throughout the entire world that was what he was
11:1311:13 - essentially saying but of course when you use that analogy you have to accommodate the fact that that analogy
11:1911:19 - is not the thing itself we will need these analogies we will need these illustrations just to get to wrap our
11:2611:26 - minds around something that would otherwise be inconceivable to us and the Lord has actually he built the world he
11:3311:33 - built this universe that we live in to tell us about himself that’s a very important thing Psalm 19 and Revelation
11:4111:41 - and and Romans 1 both attest to this that the world in which we live tell tells us something
11:4811:48 - about what and who God is of course it doesn’t give us the entire Revelation the Revelation it gives is very limited
11:5811:58 - but for someone who loves the truth and wants to know about the Lord you can use things in the world around you to
12:0612:06 - appreciate and understand the Lord a bit more and for someone whose job it is to communicate the truth about the Lord to
12:1312:13 - others you can use things in the world that people can relate to to understand some more about the Lord but we have to
12:2112:21 - never forget that an analogy is no more than an an analogy and when you’re comparing anything to God himself that
12:3012:30 - is a necessarily flawed comparison because just as Steven said there is nothing in the universe that is quite
12:4012:40 - like God so we can only say in this way and in that way this thing could throw some light on something about God but we
12:4912:49 - should not take the thing too far and come to to think of it in ways that are inappropriate that do not fit the
12:5712:57 - Revelation that we have of the the Lord in the scriptures so um again not demonizing using
13:0513:05 - illustrations but certainly being cautious and reserved in our use of them I mean I just Ed Kind of a Funny
13:1513:15 - anecdote I’m sure many folks are aware of kind of the parable the of the sheep and the goats right talking about the
13:2213:22 - separation and last judgment there is nothing inherently evil about one or the other right as if one animal is like on
13:3113:31 - account of this physical characteristic or that physical characteristic you see what I’m saying like that is pushing the
13:3813:38 - analogy quite a bit too far there’s it’s just the point is there will be a separation in the final judgment um yes
13:4613:46 - and yes I mean a lot of this things you would think would be common sense of no that’s just an analogy it doesn’t mean
13:5313:53 - what you’re saying it means but people do go there so you know that is just Why we have to head off that sort of thing
14:0014:00 - now I will say just as perhaps giving a bit of intuition to why ought we be cautious in this you
14:0714:07 - know like maybe you say what’s the harm you know maybe maybe if it helps us so uh we we have touched on a little bit
14:1314:13 - how basically giving too much ear here it it tries to what I would call like physicalize God too much we try to fit
14:2214:22 - him into a box that we can understand but the thing is you shouldn’t put God in a box because he doesn’t live in one
14:2814:28 - right he’s Unbound um there’s this interesting interplay this was brought up by someone when we paused briefly for
14:3514:35 - a sec also with the idea of no graven images it’s one of the Ten Commandments here right um what we do when we try to
14:4414:44 - conceptualize God in a way that basically we have not been given leave to is we are trying to make an image of
14:5114:51 - him um maybe it’s not as obvious as I don’t know you know like making a statue and calling it God but to the extent
14:5914:59 - that we try to make him physical we we make him bounded in the sense that we can then feel like we actually
15:0715:07 - understand him we have actually taken God and reduced him to something he is not um and yes that’s the severity of it
15:1615:16 - right it is you’re breaking one of The Commandments here you know like it’s not it’s not like an oh shrug who cares sort
15:2215:22 - of thing it’s a we need to respect God as we ought as the omnipotent creator of the universe who cannot be put into a
15:3115:31 - physical box you just can’t um if you if you call a physical box like that God you don’t really understand well not
15:3915:39 - that we will ever perfectly understand who God is but basically whatever conception you think you have is just
15:4315:43 - woefully insufficient right um yeah and that’s just why it’s not legalism here it’s not legalism to say that we really
15:5215:52 - got to be careful not to go too far we really have to be careful what we say and what conclusions we draw it’s not
15:5815:58 - just cu we’re trying to be pedantic or audite or academic and look down our noses at people it’s because we do not
16:0516:05 - want to get in the habit of trying to make God physical trying to make him something that we can perfectly
16:1216:12 - understand and metabolize because that’s not God it’s just it’s just not accurate um and the Bible itself weighs in
16:2016:20 - against it so we don’t need to be super shy about it is what I’m saying um yeah yes
16:2716:27 - great so the first of the actual illustrations that we are going to be using here comes
16:3516:35 - from the early church you know it is attested in in various places and in many ways this one is the safest of all
16:4316:43 - illustrations you might use because it’s basically just a visual way to represent the information that we’ve already gone
16:5016:50 - over so I stole this picture off of VI this I did not make this picture um and you know it looks much the same no
16:5616:56 - matter where you get it from um but if you see God in the middle of the triangle um well the father is God the
17:0417:04 - son is God the holy spirit is God but you can see here based on these sides you know like the sides of the triangle
17:1017:10 - the father is not the son the father is not the spirit the spirit is not the father there spirit is not the son and
17:1617:16 - then the son is not the spirit and the son is not the father so it just represents all of the
17:2117:21 - relationships that kind of get to what three persons in one Essence means you know that is that all three members of
17:2817:28 - the trinity are God but they are not each other by personality so hence three persons one Essence um and so as I say
17:3617:36 - this is sort of the safe illustration um because it is visually representing the points that we need to teach when we
17:4517:45 - teach the Trinity um that they are all God and yet they are distinct from each other and it just puts it in a picture
17:5117:51 - basically so I’m a little bit I what’s the right word it’s not that this isn’t an illustration because well it is kind
17:5817:58 - of a visual representation of it but I don’t quite think of this in the same terms as I think of some of the rest of
18:0418:04 - the things that we’ll go over and you’ll see a little bit more what I mean by that in in a moment but I actually think
18:1018:10 - this one is absolutely fine I even think it’s a good thing for us to bring up when we teach on this just so that
18:1518:15 - people can see it all in front of them you know maybe rather than reading three or four sentences they just look at the
18:2118:21 - picture and they say ah that is what we mean when we say that the members of the Trinity are all God but they’re not each
18:2818:28 - other um aie do you have thoughts on this initial
18:3318:33 - one yeah my my thought is exactly that I wish I had your optimism about people people are very interesting um there is
18:4318:43 - a very popular um symbol so to speak out there in media in during the Illuminati Madness that the entire world
18:5618:56 - got engulfed in for a bit um that that that picture was very very big they had it’s actually in in your in your dollar
19:0519:05 - bills I I don’t know if it’s just the $1 bill or the higher denominations but there was a pyramid with an eye on it
19:1419:14 - right so exactly so people get caught up in things like that and you would be very surprised how people could make a
19:2319:23 - triangle that’s just explanatory it’s not even there’s nothing about it that should be special they can turn it into
19:3019:30 - something that it is not the human heart is very idolatrous incredibly idolatrous and that’s what we’re warning about
19:3819:38 - really we’re saying the illustration is not the thing itself the illustration is not the Trinity illustration is not God
19:4619:46 - so don’t get it into your mind that oh maybe because this is such a good representation of God triangles are
19:5219:52 - somehow mystical Divine yeah actually you know I know teaches about other places but you know
19:5919:59 - how the holy of holies in the temple is this perfect Cube we got more we got more evidence for that than we do
20:0520:05 - triangles is what I’m saying but even that is like not it’s supposed to show the perfect equality of the three sides
20:1220:12 - in physical space it’s still just it’s still just an illustration right there’s no power to it but exactly just for
20:2020:20 - example another three-dimensional object that is mentioned in scripture doesn’t mean that that is God right or that
20:2720:27 - cubes are somehow holy and like I don’t know trapezoids or or what’s a I guess trapezoids are two dimensional not
20:3420:34 - threedimensional aren’t they but whatever you get the point that spheres are not holy because cubes are holy you
20:3920:39 - see what I’m saying like that it’s nonsense but yeah so we should we shouldn’t get caught up in all of that
20:4620:46 - is the point it’s it’s just a very good illustration it it doesn’t mean anything more than that yeah all right well I
20:5420:54 - think that is mostly what we have to say on this one you know this one has less potential to lead astray I suppose
21:0021:00 - unless you get thinking that triangles are somehow Godly um but as long as you avoid that for the most part you’re not
21:0721:07 - gonna get off in using this one so in terms of the first what we might call actual analogy here um
21:1921:19 - previously we’ just been talking about the Trinity triangle as a visual representation well we’re going to be
21:2421:24 - talking about the illustration of the family of man so of humanity or humankind here so like the Trinity
21:3221:32 - mankind has multiple members all possessed of similar spiritual Essences but here’s the difference the Trinity
21:3921:39 - shares a unique Divine Essence and their triun UNAM unanimity of purpose is unlike anything in the realm of humanity
21:4721:47 - and so we are of a kind as humans so my spiritual composition is like that of everyone else on this call is like that
21:5521:55 - of everyone else in the world you know some s bil people over but the thing is we do not share an Essence so even
22:0422:04 - though we are similar and how we are made up spiritually we do not have a Unity of purpose we do not have a Unity
22:1022:10 - of agreement asent our plans no matter how you slice it two human beings even identical twins who grew up in the same
22:1922:19 - set of circumstances with the same parents everything and they share the same goals they work at the same company
22:2522:25 - you can you can stack as many variables as you want and those two human beings will still not at all be United in the
22:3522:35 - way that gets us even close to how United the members of the Trinity are um and so hopefully you can see in some
22:4322:43 - senses all of us are human yet all of us are not the same is kind of sort of like you know there are three members of the
22:5222:52 - Trinity but they’re all God right but the problem where this one falls apart is that they’re not not like they don’t
22:5922:59 - all share you know similar makeup and are yet somehow distinct because the problem with this analogy in terms of
23:0723:07 - some of the specific Doctrine we’ve talked about previously is that the whole concept of a Pantheon of three
23:1423:14 - Gods would kind of work with this one too right um but yet we know that is false and
23:2023:20 - heretical so in some ways this analogy kind of gives us the wrong idea right aie you have anything you want to
23:2923:29 - say yeah um you’re right you’re right the fact that um we human beings have certain qualities similar to the Trinity
23:4323:43 - or that we can talk about the fact that the Trinity is made up of different persons just like mankind is made up of
23:5023:50 - different persons ultimately leads to you know questions about why there are not three Gods I mean there are so many
23:5823:58 - different human beings and we can say human beings so if these are persons in their own right individuals in their own
24:0724:07 - right and forgive me if I’m not exactly hitting on what you were saying um but if when we see that dispar or
24:1824:18 - when we try to make that comparison it does lead to that disparity human beings are distinct from each other and not
24:2424:24 - just distinct from each other we’re not bound in that unit that we find in the Trinity so it leads people to eventually
24:3324:33 - when you start making those comparisons it can lead someone to you know getting the wrong idea of what the Trinity
24:3924:39 - really is like they may be made the Trinity may be made up of three different individuals three distinct
24:4724:47 - individuals just like humanity is made up of so many different individuals but they’re they share an
24:5524:55 - Essence in a way that we human beings don’t share an Essence so we again we can get lost just making that comparison
25:0725:07 - looking at things in that light we should you know beware of it it’s enough to say that the same way that I am a
25:1625:16 - different person from Step my thoughts are my thoughts they’re not Steven’s thoughts the things I want to do may not
25:2525:25 - be anything like what Stephen wants to do this is how we understand our individualism it is possible to carry
25:3325:33 - that analogy too far and expect to find the same thing in the Trinity if they are necessarily distinct
25:4025:40 - individuals but no what you will find in the Trinity is more along the lines of they share the same desires and
25:5025:50 - whatnot they they are different individuals distinct from each other and yet there is no daylight between what
25:5825:58 - the father wants and what the son wants and what the spirit wants there is no difference between the way they perceive
26:0626:06 - reality so the father sees things the way the son does and the way the spirit does that would be difficult for us to
26:1426:14 - wrap our minds around considering that human beings are not like that no human beings no two human beings are exactly
26:2026:20 - the same in their reasoning about anything in their conceptions of reality or in their aspirations life yes I think
26:2926:29 - you can get closer in some situations so I know it’s two people not three but if you think about the love and care that a
26:3626:36 - mother and a father have for their child like let’s say it’s about saving their child from certain harm they’d probably
26:4326:43 - be pretty United on that but all it takes to see that one fall apart so that’s going from the family of man you
26:5026:50 - know with large to perhaps the family of man in a nuclear family but when you think about disagreements parents have
26:5626:56 - about how to raise their children that Unity goes out the window immediately right but you could sort of
27:0227:02 - see you can see flashes of it right you know because the loved care that a mother and a father have for their child
27:1027:10 - you know it’s not like the Trinity is exactly like that but it is a more accurate reflection than some other
27:1827:18 - analogies right you know it’s closer um that’s the unity right um yeah and it’s it’s sort of a shadow of it I would say
27:2827:28 - yes yes and but but like you said when you look at that it it if if if we go I like the way that someone
27:3727:37 - actually put it on clubhouse he was saying to another person in a debate that the person was using anthropology
27:4327:43 - to interpret theology which which is just wrong God is not like man you could say man is like God because a lot a lot
27:5427:54 - of our quality a lot of what makes us human is based on what and who God is right so you could you could see how
28:0328:03 - we’re modeled after God but God is Not modeled after us so we’re going to find very quickly that a lot of things that
28:1028:10 - might apply because of our individuality because we are separate individuals from one
28:1728:17 - another things that apply to us don’t apply to God in terms of his own individuality so that’s that’s where we
28:2528:25 - have to be very care careful about um the the connections that we have with each other but like you said it is true
28:3628:36 - that we can have things that look very similar to the unity that they have the a mother and a father having a child and
28:4428:44 - wanting the best for their child they want to raise their child right and all of that they can synchronize in their
28:5028:50 - thoughts through discussion and whatnot but we should not think that because they can do that that they Unity
28:5728:57 - of the Trinity is similar to that that the father and son and and the spirit sit down in a conference and try to
29:0329:03 - marry their thoughts with each other and figure out how I basically reach some compromise over how things ought to be
29:1129:11 - it doesn’t work you know what maybe the best way to say this hopefully this gets a chuckle out of people is that the
29:1629:16 - universe is not ruled by a committee let’s put it like that right exactly that is the wrong way to think about it
29:2429:24 - um yeah so the Trinity is not a comedy that it’s it’s it’s certainly not that’s one thing we should keep in mind yeah
29:3229:32 - yeah so now this is what we mean um and we’ll kind of return to this point as we go through these you know all of these
29:3929:39 - illustrations but I hope you can see how you can sort of see bits and bits and flashes and shadows here of maybe kind
29:4829:48 - of how we can see parallels but it should be clear I hope that this cannot capture really who got is what God is
29:5829:58 - because it’s just not complete right um yeah the information is not complete that’s just it we don’t have all of it
30:0730:07 - yeah yeah we can’t handle it if it were so there that goes yep so that is our first example
30:1830:18 - here so now we are going to be talking about the illustration of the human mind so like the Trinity the mind can be to
30:2730:27 - be at once one thing yet at the same time several things such as intellect emotion
30:3330:33 - Consciousness and C sorry Etc and can dialogue with itself and even be it cross purposes with itself but the
30:4130:41 - Trinity is composed of distinct Divine personalities to which the inner workings of our psyches make a poor
30:4630:46 - comparison now in this particular one we as human beings we are individuals so we are made up of Flesh and spirit but if
30:5630:56 - you ever read galatian chapter 5 ought to be pretty clear that you know the Flesh and the spirit are it polar you
31:0431:04 - know they’re always at each other’s throat that’s Galatians 5:17 um you know they oppose one another what Unity right
31:1231:12 - um so even when you think about this um one tension that you will see come up quite a lot um in what we might term
31:2031:20 - philosophy it’s just it’s a theme in literary writing is what we might term intellect and logic versus emotion right
31:2731:27 - um uh unfortunately sometimes this tends to get stereotyped across gender lines more than is probably appropriate uh I.E
31:3631:36 - men are not always terribly logical and women are not always terribly emotional to the point that it interferes with
31:4131:41 - logic but this tension there does exist within us as humans um and you know we know as Christians that we ought not let
31:5031:50 - our emotions lead and you know at the same time we know that you know certain things that might seem on the surface to
31:5731:57 - be logical are in fact great evil right so Eugenics for example we’re say we’re only going to let the really smart
32:0432:04 - people reproduce does not lead to Ideal Utopias right that is a very immoral sort of
32:1232:12 - thing to believe in um and so that’s what we mean here by the human mind you know we are composed of these multiple
32:2032:20 - elements um well in as much as I don’t know psychologists and stuff name certain aspect of what they call the
32:2832:28 - human psyche all of them together they don’t have a Unity of purpose um and you know I would say of illustrations this
32:3832:38 - one I think sort of self-evidently um how do you even identify uh the people in play here
32:4632:46 - shall we say um you know intellect and emotion I just gave a couple examples of kind of the two sides of the road both
32:5332:53 - leading to a ditch when it comes to that but conscience for example um you know all of these
33:0033:00 - other things that compete desire perhaps would be another one or will or I mean philosophers have all sorts of names for
33:1033:10 - philosophy of Mind type Concepts but um a you want to go on anything else before I say anything
33:1633:16 - more yeah um yeah the like you said the human mind is a composition of multiple things all
33:2633:26 - of us have feelings we we we experience emotion all of us also experience thought um and we know it as a separate
33:3433:34 - thing from feeling because I mean you might not feel very you might not have much in the way of feeling when you are
33:4333:43 - trying to make some mathematical computation or something you’re thinking when you’re doing that and sometimes you
33:4933:49 - have to make a lot of dispassionate decisions that where your emotions don’t really come into
33:5533:55 - play but we you know that when you have feelings and emotions there are still you know qualities of the mind that you
34:0334:03 - express and then when you have to weigh um moral situations that’s still something that your mind you know does
34:1234:12 - so all of these things are aspects of our like you said psyche that in that same way we can we
34:1934:19 - can say that the the Trinity is multiple people but one
34:2734:27 - just like the mind is one you don’t think of your emotions and your thoughts as maybe being from
34:3734:37 - different sources like it’s not your mind one is your mind and the other is something else we talk about the mind
34:4334:43 - and the heart that’s some that’s poetical and whatnot but we do know that whether you’re talking about the mind or
34:5034:50 - the heart we’re talking about something the seat of human being the person of the human being this is
34:5934:59 - where all of this stuff goes on our moral judgment our our our thinking our intellect our feeling and whatever else
35:0835:08 - happens in this place this is it’s all one thing happening in one place right so we get that all of this somehow
35:1735:17 - speaks to what the Trinity is like and The Trinity is multiple people multiple persons but also one
35:2735:27 - it’s one it’s it’s not a divided thing because it’s multiple persons but of course the analogy breaks down when you
35:3635:36 - see that in fact your intellect and your emotions are not always aligned I mean you can be for example in love with the
35:4535:45 - wrong person and you know it’s the wrong person because all you have to do is think about it for a second someone who
35:5235:52 - is absolutely wrong for you in every sense of that that word and yet your emotions
35:5835:58 - go like I don’t care that’s the person I want end of story you’re going to die from this but yeah so what I still want
36:0836:08 - it that happens and then your moral judgment I think everybody knows this point you know that your moral judgment
36:1436:14 - is telling you this is just not the thing for you to do it’s just wrong on all levels and you’re like yeah but I
36:2236:22 - still want it and you can actually set your intellect against your your moral judgment so when you consider this this
36:2836:28 - is still one mind the human mind where all of this conflict is occurring so even though it’s one thing that has
36:3836:38 - multiple Expressions if you will or multiple aspects to it it’s still in Conflict a thing that is not the case
36:4636:46 - with the Trinity there is never any conflict in the Trinity contrast I think a good word to
36:5436:54 - use here is peace right we understand that the only way we get peace is through the indwelling of the Holy
37:0137:01 - Spirit when we submit to God but it’s like a sharp contrast right we our minds are fundamentally without God are not at
37:1037:10 - peace you know like we literally call it the battlefield of the heart yeah so tell me people who use this analogy do
37:1837:18 - you want to say that the members of the Trinity are at war with each other you know you can see I’m being somewhat
37:2437:24 - vicious here but like this is again it’s like well if we can’t say that then what uses the analogy right past a certain
37:3237:32 - point yeah it just it isn’t because it’s not descriptive of God it doesn’t work um and
37:3837:38 - so yeah there’s multiple things that are at the same time distinct yet one but not like the Trinity is um so and we’re
37:4837:48 - just gonna we’re gonna harp on that over and over again as we go through these just because that is the core Point here
37:5237:52 - is that you can see bits and flashes but it doesn’t completely work um yeah yeah that’s the
38:0538:05 - point next we’re going to look at illustrations from the world of nature so we’re not talking so much about the
38:1238:12 - physical Universe in terms of what we might call Natural laws and phenomena here as we are talking about like I
38:1938:19 - don’t know think like forest trees waterfalls that sort of thing um so there’s many things in the natural world
38:2438:24 - that consist of distinct multip parts that at the same time constitute one complete whole so distinguishable
38:3138:31 - branches roots and trunk are all part of one and the same tree for example and here’s a pretty famous analogy uh eggs
38:3938:39 - have three distinct Parts yoke white and shell without any which of the three you would no longer have an egg none of
38:4638:46 - these illustrations really help to explain the unique personalities of the Trinity or shared Divine Essence so what
38:5438:54 - we might say by that is that you know if we were to say that uh yoke is egg and white is egg and shell is
39:0439:04 - egg it kind of doesn’t work perfectly because technically speaking the yoke is only like one out of three parts of the
39:1239:12 - egg right and so I don’t know how far you want to push that so you say is God God if he’s not try you I mean like what
39:2039:20 - is the essence of deity but where I’m going with this is that even even if you accept okay you know what these things
39:2839:28 - at least get to that idea of multiple components each making up one hole it says absolutely nothing about
39:3639:36 - the persons in the Trinity right so uh just not to put you fine a point on it but if you say God is like eggs people
39:4439:44 - are gonna look at you and be like what do you mean you know like you see what I’m saying because like it just it that
39:5239:52 - particular statement is not what I would call didactically helpful right if you say God is like an egg and you say it as
40:0040:00 - though it means something Grand someone’s gonna ask you but Mr teacher sir what am I supposed to get out of
40:0840:08 - that you know like and see that’s the problem here because the second is now you have to start explaining Divine
40:1540:15 - personalities eggs don’t have Divine personalities right um eggs don’t have any personalities at all because eggs
40:2140:21 - are immaterial objects um it just like it it’s not I I should say that you know some of the other things we’ve been
40:2940:29 - talking about I think actually like can really like like they don’t fit because of what we might call serious comparison
40:4040:40 - problems like the mind that we were just talking about the battlefield of the heart is really really different from
40:4540:45 - the unity that the members of the Trinity share these aren’t so much really really different as it’s kind of
40:5140:51 - like trying to explain something with an analogy that doesn’t really work you know so I don’t know if you’ve ever had
40:5840:58 - a coworker or a friend or something you know they’re like telling a story or they’re trying to use an example and
41:0541:05 - they just like pick a really bad example so that whatever they’re trying to explain like just doesn’t follow from it
41:1241:12 - um this happened to me before you know or they they just like or in an argument someone is making an argument and they
41:1941:19 - pick something to support their evidence that just like does not follow right um so today is today is Tuesday therefore
41:3041:30 - it will rain you know like those two things are causally unrelated it it doesn’t doesn’t make sense right um and
41:3841:38 - and to me that is closer to what this is than anything else is that not so much that these things are
41:4441:44 - like like they’re not gonna give you the wrong idea so much as that you just don’t get any idea at all because like
41:4941:49 - they’re just not the same you know like eggs to be to be very clear eggs are not like human beings either because eggs
41:5641:56 - immaterial objects they don’t have personality or will right yeah it’s non- living things and you know like it’s
42:0242:02 - just not the same um so how the analogy might help when we’re talking about eggs for example is still speaking to the
42:1142:11 - fact that God is one you know so it’s it’s not it’s not the best analogy but you can see
42:1942:19 - how something that has multiple Parts is still one it’s it’s it’s not multiple things it’s one thing but of course
42:3042:30 - where the analogy breaks down as all analogies break down I mean anyone who has written anything in this world would
42:3742:37 - would say that it’s it’s a very common thing on all analogies breakdown so this is not one of the best possible
42:4342:43 - analogies you could make but it still points to one thing where you have multiple things and those multiple
42:5242:52 - things are one thing now the analogy breaks down in that neither of them is really the
42:5842:58 - complete egg so uh if if you were to remove the yolk is the yolk the egg well the yolk is part of an egg without the
43:0843:08 - yolk do you really have an egg um the white without the white do you really have an egg without the shell well do
43:1843:18 - you really have an egg all of these things together you know speak to the egg the egg is all these things and none
43:2743:27 - of these things but but then that’s where the analogy breaks down the father is God the spirit is God the son is God
43:3643:36 - they’re all individually God they’re not parts of God so clearly the analogy here breaks down in that the yoke is not the
43:4843:48 - egg but without the Yoke you don’t have an egg so we see I mean I’m not even sure I
43:5543:55 - would go so far as to dive into the specifics here in terms of what we might term ontology just because when you do
44:0244:02 - that you’re kind of already going down this path of philosophizing the egg into a being with what what we would call UIA
44:1144:11 - that’s the Greek word for being like it’s just they like I said it’s two things of a different class so it’s like
44:1744:17 - if you’re playing 20 questions with someone and you say mineral but you’re thinking of a carrot right like it’s not
44:2444:24 - I’m just saying that they’re not they’re not too things of a kind is what I’m saying yeah they’re not even close um
44:3044:30 - there’s a point I’ve been wanting to make for a little bit but I I kept I kept forgetting it it was essentially
44:3644:36 - this that when we are making these analogies um I hope I I haven’t forgotten it again when we’re making
44:4444:44 - these analogies when we’re talking about these things the goal is to is to show us what we have talked about once that
44:5344:53 - even though a lot of things about God super logical in the sense that they are beyond our ability to reason they’re not
45:0245:02 - illogical in that they don’t even you know fit into what makes sense so to speak they
45:1345:13 - do make sense but the thing is we don’t have enough information to fully comprehend it to fully understand it so
45:2145:21 - um besides we don’t have the ability to even understand that information if we had it so likewise the argument that one
45:2945:29 - could make with respect to any analogy we’re making is it’s not out of place to conceive of something like the Trinity
45:3845:38 - it’s not an an illogical concept it’s just not one we can fully grasp because when you look into our experience as
45:4645:46 - human beings limited by time and space and Immortal body we can see things in our experience that say oh something
45:5545:55 - like like this is possible even though clearly it is not this so we can say this thing we’re talking about is not
46:0646:06 - beyond the limit of of possibility it’s not one of those things that are absurd it’s just too much to fully comprehend
46:1646:16 - well so yeah it doesn’t derive a logical contradiction perhaps a way and I would say that the problem is if you word
46:2446:24 - things a certain way that’s where people run into trouble they say God is one yet God is three but what do they mean by
46:3146:31 - God is one and what do they mean by God is three because that’s why you can’t omit the persons in the essence from the
46:3746:37 - definition of the Trinity because if you say God is one yet God is three that’s the that’s the definition of the Trinity
46:4446:44 - you’ve omitted The crucial information that the teaching of the Trinity is that God is one in essence and three in
46:5146:51 - person and you can’t leave those things out because yeah otherwise like what what you’re saying
46:5946:59 - what depends what you mean right because that statement actually one does not equal three in terms of numerical Logic
47:0647:06 - for example but that’s not what we’re claiming is the thing we’re not claiming that God is one person and three people
47:1347:13 - that is the equivalency that would derive a logical contradiction right yes yes exactly the two things are not the
47:2047:20 - same we’re not talking about the same thing on two sides of an equation right we’re not talking about God has one
47:2647:26 - Essence yet God has three Essences or God is one person yet God is three people we are saying neither of those
47:3247:32 - things we are saying that God has one Essence but he is three persons see what I’m saying and therefore there is no
47:3947:39 - logical contradiction not inherent in logic it’s just hard to understand that’s all um because there is nothing
47:4747:47 - else that is multiple persons from the same Essence in all of existence right that’s that that’s
47:5447:54 - literally all there is to it but ai’s point is very important and we should emphasize that reemphasize it the
48:0048:00 - Trinity is not an illogical Doctrine it is just outside the scope of human experience and understanding because we
48:0748:07 - are finite beings don’t really understand what an eternal existence is much less Eternal Unity of will things
48:1648:16 - like this we just kind of can’t sink our fingers into it past a certain point because it’s outside the scope of our
48:2248:22 - experience but that’s very different from it being iCal in a formal logic sense yeah
48:3448:34 - yeah all right so the next type of illustration we’re going to be talking about here that people sometimes use in
48:4148:41 - discussing the Trinity uh is the illustrations coming from the Physical Realm so this category of illustration
48:4948:49 - for the Trinity contains some of the perhaps more interesting examples that have ever been used when people have
48:5548:55 - tried to map things from the material Universe uh onto the Trinity to help us kind of understand it contextualize it
49:0349:03 - uh in material terms but they all suffer from the same objections that were lodged against the former category that
49:1049:10 - is you know when we were talking about things from nature like an egg which has the Yol the White and the shell for
49:1649:16 - example um any of which three you would no longer have an egg but the problem with this sort like we had said was that
49:2449:24 - none of these illustrations really help explain the personalities of the Trinity because while it is true that without
49:3049:30 - any of those three things you no longer have an egg which is good you know because that’s true of the Trinity as
49:3549:35 - well if you don’t have Jesus it’s not the Trinity if you don’t have the father it’s not the Trinity if you don’t have
49:3949:39 - the son it’s not the Trinity but you know an egg yoke doesn’t have personality so um it it it’s limited in
49:4649:46 - its power to describe exactly how the Trinity works and like we said this is just true across the board for all of
49:5349:53 - our illustrations because none of them them can properly capture you know the Divine being of God who external
50:0050:00 - SpaceTime they just can’t um so these illustrations here unlike nature where you know the egg was one of the examples
50:0750:07 - we used we have several examples here so uh maybe starting out with an easy one uh light is one yet distinct and we
50:1750:17 - might also compare actually God being light coming from 1 John 1 verse5 um that God is light and in him there is no
50:2550:25 - Darkness so God has actually described as being light but you don’t want to push this one too far in saying that uh
50:3150:31 - so when we say that light is one yet distinct we’re primarily talking about wavelengths here so if anyone remembers
50:3850:38 - back to their physics class we know that a radio is you know uh a electromagnetic radiation of a specific wavelength on
50:4750:47 - the Spectrum Radio is heard or well I mean we don’t hear it with our ears but you know like you know E Equipment can
50:5750:57 - uh you know take the radio waves and convert them into sound um because sound waves are a different type of wave than
51:0151:01 - electromagnetic but radio is heard visible light is seen so you might think uh across the rainbow Spectrum uh so red
51:1051:10 - light on one end and blue light on the other actually have different wavelengths um so unless I’m M I believe
51:1751:17 - I’d have to actually go look but I think red wav is like a longer wavelength and blue is uh shorter wavelength maybe blue
51:2451:24 - is higher frequency I don’t remember blue light has more energy I remember that from physics um but infrared is
51:3051:30 - another type of electromagnetic radiation so all of these things we can call light yet no one of them has like a
51:4051:40 - monopoly on light right they’re all equally light yet they’re not the same uh like they’re not equivalent to each
51:4751:47 - other right so that’s in the same way this is where the analogy part comes in the father is God and the spirit is God
51:5451:54 - and the son is God but they are not each other in the same way that radio is light visible light is light and
52:0152:01 - infrared is light or electromag electromagnetic radiation if you prefer but all of those things are not each
52:0952:09 - other um so uh just more examples here we say the universe is one yet distinct in that the universe is composed of time
52:1852:18 - space and matter and all of those things are the universe but time is not space and space is not matter and matter is
52:2452:24 - not time right um time is one yet distinct past present and future and all of those
52:3152:31 - things are time yet past is not present and present is not future and future is not past same thing with space length
52:3952:39 - breadth and height all of those things are dimensions within space but length is not breadth and breadth is not height
52:4552:45 - and height is not length and also with matter itself so this one I don’t know again physics if you recall in your
52:5452:54 - heads you know there’s an a very famous equation from Einstein e equals mc² right um You might remember this um so
53:0253:02 - energy and matter are related to each other in terms of the physical universe and the well I misspelled that word
53:0953:09 - there that should be phenomena not phenomia that’s that’s not a word phenomena um so matter is one yet
53:1753:17 - distinct energy matter and phenomena and energy is not matter matter is not phenomena phenomena is not energy
53:2253:22 - there’s three things right all of these examp here they get at this sense that the
53:2953:29 - father and the son and the spirit are all God but yet they’re not each other but just like we talked about before
53:3653:36 - with nature the problem is is that none of these things are personal they’re not individuals like it’s not like time
53:4353:43 - space and matter have Personalities in the same way that the members of the Trinity do they don’t have Personalities
53:5053:50 - in the sense that we humans have personalities but they have a will they are person
53:5653:56 - um and so that’s where these analogies kind of fall down just like the past on we’ve talked about a you have anything
54:0354:03 - you want to contribute uh in this discussion here okay um not not much really I think you have covered the
54:1054:10 - grounds like we’ve said before that all illustrations that we make about the Trinity are necessarily going to be
54:1954:19 - flowed they’re all illustrations they cannot be anything other than illustrations so in some way they will
54:2654:26 - give some insight into how the Trinity works but um beyond that we might we will find that those illustrations like
54:3454:34 - every other analogy will break down so that is um what we need to know but like like we said they’re very useful to
54:4354:43 - understand some aspect or other of the Trinity I don’t think there is much more to say or do regarding um how the whole
54:5354:53 - thing works but you have covered it pretty nice all right so before we get back to
55:0255:02 - the outline to kind of go over all that we’ve talked about we’re just going to close out kind of uh ending where we
55:0855:08 - started talking about the basically some of the caveats to bear in mind when we are discussing these illustrations for
55:1555:15 - the Trinity and kind of the just the concept in general of coming up with these analogies to try to help us
55:2055:20 - understand so the most that can be said for the best of these illustrations is to the extent that they remind us of the
55:2755:27 - awesome wisdom and power of God in creating all of these things that we’re talking about um and we may often take
55:3355:33 - this for granted as we go through life uh you know just thinking about the enormity of the universe and the
55:3955:39 - magnificence of God’s creation you know we probably ought to ponder that a little bit more just generally speaking
55:4655:46 - however all of those things you know in as much as they may help us realize that God is going to be even greater than
55:5655:56 - what he has made you know that’s a positive thing they can help point us to him this is in fact very much what
56:0256:02 - natural Revelation generally is you know as talked about in Romans chapter 1 vers 18 and following or Psalm chapter 19 uh
56:1156:11 - we know God we know certain aspects about uh his character and his divinity through that which has been made um and
56:1956:19 - so in as much as these things point us to God and we know um you know we can refer things based upon that just
56:2656:26 - through the natural world and some of these created things you know we talked about nature here and uh just things
56:3256:32 - from the Physical Realm uh creation generally um well these things can be good in as much as they point us to God
56:4056:40 - as the Creator um and so um they may help us realize that God is going to be even bigger even more complex even more
56:4956:49 - wonderful than the things that he has created um and so if they help us accept what we already know to be true about
56:5556:55 - the Trinity and again as we have kind of hammered home time and again the doctrine of the Trinity is basically one
57:0357:03 - in essence three in person or three in person or one in essence whichever order you prefer those things together compose
57:0957:09 - the teaching of what we say we believe and so if these things help us grasp that or accept it more easily what we
57:1757:17 - know to be true from what the Bible tells us then okay that’s fine right basically this is best case right right
57:2557:25 - um and so we’re never going to completely grasp this you know we’ve been over this before too um even if it
57:3157:31 - seems too complex and wonderful for us to fully grasp as humans that’s a limitation of our flesh of our Earthly
57:3757:37 - perspective given that we are very finite beings in SpaceTime on the other side we will know more as we are known
57:4457:44 - the terminology the Bible uses but nonetheless right now we have this very limited perspective that we are going to
57:5057:50 - be kind of stuck with until uh we join God and Jesus on the other side and all of our brothers and sisters who’ve gone
57:5957:59 - before us um however and again that was best case scenario however uh you can run into problems here as well we have
58:0758:07 - to take care that none of these illustrations are taken too far we have kind of been over this before uh when
58:1358:13 - you think about the interpretation of Parables so you have the parable of the wheat and the tears well we are not
58:1958:19 - actually literally wheat you cannot take certain physical properties of wheat and start making suppositions and hypoth
58:2558:25 - based on them um and that’s sort of the same thing here um and the idea is basically if we go beyond what is
58:3358:33 - written uh we can be led to dangerous and extra biblical rationalization based upon analogies we cannot reason about
58:4158:41 - the nature of God based upon characteristics of eggs you know just to go back to the nature example God is not
58:4858:48 - an egg right in as much as we use the egg to try to explain how there are these three parts any one of which if
58:5458:54 - you take it away is no longer an egg you know if we try to use that to help us understand the Trinity maybe you know
59:0159:01 - like we said best case maybe it helps us appreciate the complexity and the Majesty of God but you can’t you know go
59:0759:07 - start trying to put God in a box based on characteristics of eggs that’s kind of what we’re getting at here um and The
59:1459:14 - Trinity here um this is kind of taking a step back into the wider context the Trinity is very often a good litmus test
59:2159:21 - for our Christian faith um because to AC the Trinity you have to accept not only the existence of God but also the
59:2959:29 - distinctiveness and Divinity of Jesus Christ that is he’s a different person than the father but he is also God and
59:3559:35 - that’s kind of the true Touchstone principle that divides us as Believers from unbelievers that Jesus uh fully God
59:4259:42 - yet fully man came down into the world um paid for our sins upon the cross that we might have redemption and forgiveness
59:4959:49 - through his blood you know that’s the essence of the Gospel message and so this is why Satan spends so many
59:5659:56 - resources attacking this Doctrine in particular is because by distorting our understanding of the Trinity the devil
01:00:0301:00:03 - ultimately seeks to destroy our faith in Jesus Christ uh you know specifically we would say who he is the who he is part
01:00:0901:00:09 - of Jesus Christ but you know our entire understanding of redemption of how Jesus Paid for our sin it doesn’t work if he
01:00:1701:00:17 - wasn’t God and this is why this is so so so important for us as Christians because the Divinity of Jesus and how he
01:00:2401:00:24 - was God is God and yet he took on a human nature to become the perfect sacrifice for our sins it’s as
01:00:3101:00:31 - foundational as you get in Christianity basically and so that’s why Satan spends time attacking this um and again this is
01:00:4001:00:40 - just Why well you know by way of warning we are saying we have to be careful not to go beyond what is written not to push
01:00:4701:00:47 - analogies and and by the way these have going against them that most of these aren’t even biblical analogies they’re
01:00:5201:00:52 - just analogies people have come up with which you know in as much as they’re not even in the Bible they’re not even
01:00:5701:00:57 - inspired and we just have plenty of um danger in going too far with this that doesn’t mean that you will inherently
01:01:0501:01:05 - you know the second you look at one of these that I don’t know that you’re going to mess up your understanding the
01:01:0901:01:09 - Trinity it’s just we have to be really careful and one of the other reasons why we need to take such care is just
01:01:1501:01:15 - because of how critical and how important this Doctrine is generally for our faith and practice as Christians so
01:01:2101:01:21 - that’s kind of where we’re going to leave off here just all of this should help point us to you know okay so maybe
01:01:2701:01:27 - if some of these things aren’t the best way for us to understand so we we’ve talked about three persons one Essence
01:01:3401:01:34 - well what does that mean how does that work in how God interacts with creation it’s kind of where we’re going to turn
01:01:3901:01:39 - next but this was just an introduction to the fact that we can use certain phenomena in the Physical Realm to try
01:01:4701:01:47 - to help us wrap our heads around how this works and things like that and it’s not necessarily bad but we just really
01:01:5301:01:53 - need to be careful when when we do it so that we don’t get tripped up a you have anything else you want to share before
01:02:0001:02:00 - we close out this section of the study not really I don’t think there is uh much else to say it it does bear
01:02:0901:02:09 - repeating and emphasizing that um every every bit of the Bible is important and some parts of the Bible
01:02:1801:02:18 - are like you said foundational to our faith you don’t need to understand the mechanics of the Trinity to be saved but
01:02:2601:02:26 - if you don’t understand the Trinity and how it works there’s a chance that you have a
01:02:3301:02:33 - greater potential to have your faith threatened than if you did um because just as as
01:02:4201:02:42 - Stephen very aptly pointed out um the the the business of the Trinity the truth of the Trinity affirms The Who
01:02:5201:02:52 - part of what of of of the whole business of Jesus who is he and what did he do what did he do is what saved us but who
01:03:0201:03:02 - he is is what made what he did possible so if we if we don’t get the who part then that’s where we are weak that’s
01:03:0901:03:09 - where Satan is going to attack and we we have seen it has been a potent attack in the history of the church visible for a
01:03:1701:03:17 - long time so um getting it right is not an academic thing it’s not a hobby we don’t do it just for fun we do it in
01:03:2801:03:28 - order to make sure that there are no gaps in our faith in our understanding of the Lord there are no chinks in our
01:03:3501:03:35 - armor that’s why what what we do it for it’s not just an academic [Music]
01:03:4401:03:44 - endeav so that’s where we’re going to cut this section in the study here I just briefly going to go back over uh
01:03:5001:03:50 - the things we’ve talked about here in discussing illustrations for the trinity we opened up talking about uh how you
01:03:5701:03:57 - know there are some perils there’s some risks here especially if we’re not careful in keeping these things
01:04:0201:04:02 - contextualized you know making it very clear that you know this isn’t you know the formal teaching about God at best
01:04:0901:04:09 - these are just ways to help us better conceptualize him to put him in a human frame of reference so that maybe we can
01:04:1701:04:17 - wrap our heads about how three can be one and one can be three in terms of three persons one essence or one Essence
01:04:2301:04:23 - three persons um but we just have to be really careful when we do this that we don’t get lost in translation um and so
01:04:3001:04:30 - then after that we talked about uh the Trinity triangle this illustration that has been around since the very early
01:04:3601:04:36 - church and how really calling this an illustration is is maybe not quite the same as some of the other ones because
01:04:4201:04:42 - it’s just sort of a pictoral and image way to represent the doctrine of the Trinity which is that the father and the
01:04:4801:04:48 - son and the spirit are all God but the father is not the Son and the son is not the spirit and the spirit is is not the
01:04:5401:04:54 - father right um and you can see those relationships represented here in the triangle and so um that uh early
01:05:0101:05:01 - illustration we said you know if you keep it to the picture you know there’s nothing special about triangles for
01:05:0601:05:06 - example but you know it it can be helpful and just showing us in a visual representation of what the doctrine of
01:05:1301:05:13 - the Trinity is then we talked about the illustration of the family of man the illustration of the human mind
01:05:2001:05:20 - illustrations from the world of nature like that example of the egg and illustrations from the Physical Realm
01:05:2701:05:27 - like light the the you know the electromagnetic radiation the Spectrum there with different wavelengths but
01:05:3301:05:33 - they’re all light and space and time and matter and so on um all of these things can help kind of uh maybe help us get
01:05:4201:05:42 - some intuition for how can three things be one you know how can they all be the same yet different um in the same way
01:05:4901:05:49 - that um the three members of the Trinity are all God yet they are distinct persons that’s kind kind of where these
01:05:5501:05:55 - analogies these illustrations are trying to help us go um but again we kind of closed out here just saying that because
01:06:0001:06:00 - of how important this Doctrine is because none of these illustrations are really in the Bible either we just have
01:06:0601:06:06 - to be careful that we don’t take any of this too far that if we do any of this which um you know we’re kind of going to
01:06:1301:06:13 - argue in the next part of the study that the best way to actually understand the Trinity is to look at how the Trinity
01:06:1901:06:19 - operates in creation as uh recorded for us in the Bible That’s the best way for us to understand how this works in
01:06:2601:06:26 - practice uh probably more than trying to uh reason with these illustrations or analogies so that’s kind of where we’re
01:06:3301:06:33 - going to be turning now we are going to be turning to the roles of the Trinity as discussed in the Bible so there’s a a
01:06:3901:06:39 - future section that’s going to kind of hit more the Old Testament specifically we’re talk about the concept of
01:06:4401:06:44 - christophanies some but right now we’re just going to be introducing the roles in the Trinity generally speaking so
01:06:5001:06:50 - we’re going to be talking about the father and the son and the spirit and uh names for God as it’s involved in the
01:06:5601:06:56 - roles in the Trinity so that’s what the next lesson we’ll be going over