Introduction - The Trinity in the Bible

Video/audio transcript

00:0000:00 - all right so right now we are going to be picking up with our next lesson in the series talking about the trinity in
00:0600:06 - the Bible as a concept now we have already been talking about the Trinity for a while now uh you know the members
00:1400:14 - of the Trinity the definition of the Trinity basically uh three persons one Essence and some of what that means but
00:2000:20 - in this lesson we are going to be going over a little bit more specifically about uh how the Bible discusses or
00:2800:28 - rather does not discuss the concepts so explicitly and what that means when we go about talking about it for us as
00:3400:34 - Christians and so we’re going to first off just be reviewing what we’ve already gone over so this is the more
00:4000:40 - definitional side of the Trinity I’m going over three persons one Essence and some of the kind of uh features of a
00:4700:47 - correct understanding of the Trinity that we’ve been going over in the last few lessons then we’re going to be
00:5200:52 - talking about kind of why the Trinity can be hard to explain properly and then why that truth means that we really need
00:5900:59 - to keep our f focus on the Bible when we are talking about it so rather than man-made analogies or rational
01:0701:07 - explanations from uh philosophy and things like that we need to keep our focus on what scripture says so that’s
01:1401:14 - what we’re going to be discussing in this lesson so the first thing that we’re
01:2101:21 - going to do here is just review what we’ve been talking about in the last few lessons probably won’t overly belabor
01:2701:27 - things here because we’ve already been through all of this but we’re just going to go ahead and hit the highlights just
01:3201:32 - to remind ourselves of exactly what the Trinity is so that when we’re talking about uh you know how the Bible views it
01:4001:40 - we kind of know what’s in view so the definition of the Trinity which best does Justice to the biblical statements
01:4601:46 - on the subject it’s the one that we’ve already kind of been repeating over and over uh is that one in essence and three
01:5201:52 - in person or three in person and one in essence that is the core definition of the Trinity we get an even clearer
01:5801:58 - picture of what the Bible has to say about uh this topic when we combine that traditional definition that we just said
02:0502:05 - kind of with the four cories that we have gone over in the last few lessons and so just to recap those uh we said
02:1102:11 - that all members in the Trinity are Divine persons all members of the Trinity are unique persons all members
02:1802:18 - of the Trinity have uh co-equal and co-eternal Essence a consubstantial and then this third point is that all
02:2602:26 - members of the Trinity share the same Divine Essence so these should sound familiar these are the points that we’ve
02:3202:32 - gone over in the last few lessons kind of defining the trinity in terms of some things that’s not right and we have
02:3902:39 - discussed some heresies involved in some of these things in the past so for example one heresy denies that Jesus was
02:4802:48 - God aryanism uh you know that would be this first topic here going over the Divine persons and you know various
02:5502:55 - other heresies besides dotism some other ones as well um so this this is what we have done already been defining the
03:0203:02 - Trinity um three persons one Essence and then discussing some cories to that definition that help us kind of flesh
03:1003:10 - out the topic uh in a little bit more depth so as to the First new point that we’re going to be going over this week
03:2003:20 - having just done this review of what we have been talking about we’re going to be talking about how the Trinity can be
03:2603:26 - kind of hard to explain properly um and one in point that that should kind of make this uh have an intuitive basis for
03:3503:35 - us when we consider past history is that there have been a lot of heresies in the past that have sprung up to challenge
03:4203:42 - Orthodox statements about the Trinity um and there are other areas that are somewhat comparable in scripture but
03:4903:49 - this proposition that we’re kind of putting forward here that the Trinity can be kind of hard to explain properly
03:5503:55 - well it makes intuitive sense when you compare this history that people have in the past understood it in various
04:0204:02 - problematic ways which kind of wouldn’t be the case if it were uh perhaps more clearly delineated and we have already
04:0904:09 - argued the point that the Bible just presupposes the Trinity it’s there in scripture um you know the fact that that
04:1604:16 - word isn’t used doesn’t mean that the Bible doesn’t teach it things like that but the point that we’re making is that
04:2304:23 - people wouldn’t have problems with it uh you know if it was like stated in one sentence you know just like that um now
04:3104:31 - we have to be careful because this this line of what I would call inferential thinking about I don’t know how direct
04:3704:37 - or objective the Bible might be about something it gets complicated when you consider that Satan probably sinks more
04:4304:43 - of his resources towards challenging things that are really important and specifically the Divinity of the son the
04:5004:50 - Divinity of Jesus Christ is a very very important Doctrine for us as Christians you know Salvation hinges upon
04:5704:57 - understanding who Jesus was and what he did for us for us and so it’s no surprise that Satan has also sunk
05:0305:03 - resources in his world system in empowering heresy empowering errors and Doctrine towards attacking this point as
05:1105:11 - well so it’s not only uh and we should just be clear about that it’s not only that the Trinity can be kind of hard to
05:1805:18 - talk about and explain it’s also that Satan has been trying to uh get people to stumble in this area because it’s so
05:2505:25 - important um but the main point uh just to pull us back back towards the text of the slide a bit here is that um this
05:3405:34 - challenge that we have sometimes in explaining exactly what it is you know stating in a proper biblical way um this
05:4105:41 - is true especially the further any definition of the Trinity moves away for what the Bible actually says um and
05:4905:49 - that’s because this topic is inherently hard for us to think about as humans the second that you step off of that path of
05:5605:56 - what the Bible actually says is really easy to start more is just making things up because when we try to make sense of
06:0206:02 - it in our heads we we try to fill in blanks and and what we put in those blanks if it’s not based directly on the
06:1006:10 - Bible is just inherently suspect because of this um and um you know this is just reiterating what we’ve already said here
06:1806:18 - that um uh the statements of the Bible were taken to be sufficient by the apostles and Apostolic fathers that’s
06:2406:24 - why we don’t get a lot of discussion about the Trinity and you know combating heresies involving it until those
06:3106:31 - heresies actually pop up in more like second third Century sort of thing um now it should be noted that the
06:3806:38 - definition that we use here for the trinity in terms of persons in essence well you know what’s a what’s Essence
06:4506:45 - and what’s a person you know um these terms were felt by some theologians of the early church to be controversial now
06:5306:53 - just because some people say that doesn’t mean that they really are I at least not in my opinion but nonetheless
06:5906:59 - people people do present challenges based on what we would call defining terms here and just to give an example
07:0607:06 - here of why the Trinity is hard for us to discuss as human beings is that well if we talk about Essence in terms of
07:1307:13 - human beings man’s Essence um we are all cut from the same spiritual cloth that is um you know my spiritual makeup is
07:2107:21 - the same as AI is the same as other human beings in the church uh we all have this similar spiritual composition
07:2907:29 - our Essence is of of a Kind right we are like one another in this way spiritually and we all have um personalities as well
07:4007:40 - we are all Unique Individuals I am not the same as someone else but when we kind of start turning this same this uh
07:4907:49 - uh looking at this uh in terms of God rather than man well the essence of God is just fundamentally different from the
07:5707:57 - essence of man so just how we have um similar Essences right but um the important points were not the same well
08:0508:05 - all of the members of the Trinity actually share the same Essence there is no human correlat for that that’s just
08:1108:11 - not how human beings are composed right so I have um you know a unique nature given to me by God um you know the
08:1908:19 - spirit and the flesh compose me as a human being same deal with all other human beings but we are we don’t share
08:2508:25 - that unity in essence that God does and with regards to persons or personality in the Trinity that’s different than
08:3308:33 - human persons as well because the persons of the Trinity have absolute Unity of agreement and purpose to a
08:4108:41 - degree that just completely boggles that of humans um so even people who agree for example religiously or politically
08:4908:49 - or even married couples who tend to agree with each other uh even those sorts of relationships don’t have
08:5608:56 - anywhere near the same Unity as is present in the Trinity um and so it’s not only quantitatively it is also
09:0409:04 - qualitatively Beyond The Human Experience uh God is fundamentally different from us so maybe that was a
09:1109:11 - little bit rambly but the point of all of this is that the Trinity um you know even despite saying that um you know the
09:1809:18 - statements in the Bible are sufficient unto themselves we don’t have to go try to build a huge framework around it we
09:2309:23 - can be open and honest in saying that the Trinity can be difficult to talk about sometimes that is just facet of um
09:3009:30 - this particular Doctrine for us and that doesn’t trouble us theologically so much because we know that sometimes God lays
09:3709:37 - things out in such a way that we need to be persistent in seeking the truth uh to come to full understanding um and
09:4609:46 - it’s uh sort of set up in the manner that um it rewards those who seek him um and we have a necessary part in that we
09:5409:54 - need to do our homework to actually do that seeking and that’s why uh we can kind of simultaneously say that the
10:0110:01 - statements in the Bible are perfectly clear especially once you take the time to kind of line them up and and look
10:0610:06 - into them and see how it fits together yet at the same time uh it can be easy to get off the right path if you’re not
10:1310:13 - careful in how you talk about it so um that is kind of this this introduction here uh towards what we’re
10:2110:21 - going to be talking about this week aie do you have any follow on points to anything I’ve said here
10:2710:27 - um just like said it’s just essentially to reiterate that the point of discussing it is
10:3510:35 - to um sort of uh cut offut cut the ground from
10:4510:45 - under the feet of any of the crazy ideas that people have had about Trinity that’s really the bottom line it’s not
10:5510:55 - so much to try to give a proper exhaustive explanation that’s impossible to derive from the scriptures but
11:0511:05 - certainly to make sure that those who are choosing to walk with the Lord know that no it’s not this and it’s not
11:1511:15 - that it’s something that we will fully appreciate when we stand before the Lord but um for now this is what we do know
11:2511:25 - and what we can live by so that’s that’s just what I would reiterate yep and you know that point of
11:3511:35 - what I would call knowledge for this point in time um we know that on the other side we will know more fully you
11:4211:42 - know not as through a glass Darkly but we will know as we are known um that’s how scripture phrases it and so some of
11:5111:51 - this we will have a much better appreciation of once we’re no longer so Bound by time and space um not that we
11:5811:58 - will ever cease to be completely Bound by those even in eternity but we will have a better
12:0312:03 - appreciation for how this works once we aren’t so finite ourselves um once we aren’t so limited as we are in these
12:1112:11 - bodies down here in Satan’s World um so yeah given everything that we just talked about about how the Trinity can
12:2312:23 - be hard to explain properly uh not so much that we can’t explain it or that scripture has to say or that those
12:3012:30 - things aren’t basically self-evident in themselves so we don’t need Church councils to talk about this all of that
12:3612:36 - aside the main point is that it’s one of those things that’s kind of easy for us as Christians to get wrong um and part
12:4212:42 - of that um as we’ve gone over some is just because of how different God is from us and so the lesson that we take
12:5012:50 - from this should be something along the lines that if we try to speculate about these things what we might call
12:5712:57 - rationalistic um philosophically we try to wrap our heads around it in terms of human logic that
13:0413:04 - is sort of always a dangerous Paradigm because God is super logical we might say or theological um it doesn’t mean
13:1113:11 - he’s he’s illogical but just that he exceeds some of the assumptions of presuppositions we might have or that
13:1813:18 - might apply to us as humans well it’s even more to be avoided in the case of the Trinity um and we also have to
13:2613:26 - remember and this makes the Trinity distinct from of some points of biblical Doctrine is that it was really only
13:3213:32 - fully revealed with the arrival of the New Testament um so what God has chosen to reveal about the doctrine of the
13:3913:39 - Trinity he has revealed carefully and gradually so not to get too off topic but this thing that we’re talking about
13:4613:46 - here is typically called in theology progressive revelation um this idea that God didn’t give Humanity all truth up
13:5413:54 - front you know he didn’t just drop the book from the sky at the beginning of human history but details have emerged
14:0014:00 - over the course of human history um as God has seen fit to uh to basically give additional prophecy additional Insight
14:0814:08 - additional um inspired scripture to mankind because the Bible was compiled over a period of many centuries um so
14:1614:16 - this idea of progressive revelation he has revealed details about the Trinity carefully and gradually over time so
14:2314:23 - we’re going to talk more about the trinity in the Old Testament uh kind of separate set of lessons in the future
14:2914:29 - here um you know this this idea of uh theophanes and christophanies and things like that um but we may nonetheless say
14:3714:37 - here that a large part of the reason for this guarded revelation of the doctrine um just aside from our own limitations
14:4314:43 - as human beings and comprehending it because God’s infinite uh well one of the other guarded or sorry one of the
14:5014:50 - other reasons for this guarded Revelation may be the all to obvious fact that wrong ideas about it have
14:5714:57 - historically posed such a threat to the entire basis of our faith as Christians so basically that um sometimes the
15:0615:06 - details here aren’t you know what we might say uh uh like they’re not all over the place because people might take
15:1615:16 - uh some of those things you know a verse here a verse there and then run with them in a way that would cause lots of
15:2215:22 - theological problems um and that is as we just kind of finished going over that is somewhat due just to the nature of of
15:2915:29 - this doctrine that we’re talking about that’s just kind of the way it is um because God Is So separate from us his
15:3415:34 - existence is is fundamentally different God is existence whereas we exist is limited beings tied to space time and
15:4115:41 - things like this it’s just really easy for people to get off in the Weeds on this one and so some of why the Bible uh
15:4815:48 - speaks in the way it does may be to give people less ammunition to go get off in the Wheats um and some of that is an
15:5715:57 - inference you know we don’t like there is no verse in the Bible that says that directly but it makes good logical sense
16:0316:03 - and um just to elaborate a little bit on the dangers here just a little bit of Leaven in the loaf right using that that
16:1016:10 - biblical metaphor here just a little leaven in the loaf and Satan can make the Trinity seem as an association of
16:1616:16 - gods and so basically no different from paganism or Pantheon or no different from one God just wearing Three Hats so
16:2516:25 - modalism and that completely eliminates the importance and the efficacy of Christ’s Incarnation sacrifice so Jesus
16:3216:32 - Christ taking on a full human nature alongside his divine nature in theology that that fully God yet fully man and
16:4016:40 - one being typically called the hypostatic union it’s the jargony way to say it but the Incarnation is very
16:4616:46 - different um it doesn’t work with what we would call this one being wearing Three Hats it’s just different they’re
16:5316:53 - different persons um different H Hy I can’t say that word whatever you know that’s what hypostasis means um
17:0017:00 - different persons and so you know all of this is just going to say that just being a little bit off here just you
17:0817:08 - know that one detail that you you flip bits on that you get wrong and suddenly you’re you’re right you know you laid
17:1517:15 - the axe at the base of the tree of salvation for us as Christians because you get stuff here wrong and it kind of
17:2317:23 - ruins the entire loaf um and so in his loving wisdom God has told us what we most need to know without giving
17:3117:31 - us either information that could be misinterpreted or that would be prone to overt misinterpretation or less than
17:3817:38 - accurate illustrations that might do more harm than good so if you read some of what the Bible does say on the
17:4517:45 - Trinity you know all of the discussion that we’ve already had in our past lesson uh where we talk about some of
17:5117:51 - what scripture does have to say you know all these passages that seem to just assume three members of the Trinity and
17:5617:56 - that they’re all co-equal and Co Eternal and things like this they all have the same Authority and therefore God exists
18:0318:03 - as a triing god QED and some of that um some of the arguments we’ve made the evidence we’ve given forth for um the
18:1018:10 - the Trinity as it comes from scripture well if you’ve ever wondered why doesn’t God just I don’t know Tred to explain it
18:1618:16 - to us by analogy well we’re g to get to that a little bit more fully in our next lesson but it’s because nothing he gives
18:2418:24 - us is inaccurate he he’s not he’s not trying to imperfectly explain himself to us he’s just asserting that it is um and
18:3318:33 - this is why we say in his wisdom God has told us what we most need to know without giving us information that could
18:3918:39 - be misinterpreted or without giving us imperfect illustrations or analogies or things like that because he doesn’t need
18:4518:45 - to because if we seek with the hearts that we ought to as Christians we will eventually come to learn and understand
18:5218:52 - and comprehend uh what the Bible teaches about this and God doesn’t have to do these things for us to get there
18:5918:59 - so all of this to say this is why we need to keep our focus on what the Bible actually does say about the Trinity we
19:0519:05 - don’t need to fill in the gaps here we don’t need to try to come up with these imperfect explanations to explain a
19:1119:11 - doctrine that will always have that tinge of what I would call impossible to understand for us as humans not that we
19:1819:18 - can’t understand the points you know as we’ve been hammering home over and over again three persons one Essence we don’t
19:2419:24 - need to be uncertain about that but the point is what is exactly does it mean for a being to exist external to space
19:3119:31 - and time well as human beings we don’t have good perspective on that you know we can kind of maybe grasp it
19:3619:36 - intellectually but we don’t really have a full sense experientially of what that is that sort of thing is what I’m
19:4219:42 - getting at here but we don’t need to fill in any of the gaps for this we don’t need to try to explain it
19:4819:48 - imperfectly or uh I don’t know like basically uh just basically say more than what is there and that’s why we
19:5619:56 - have to stick so closely to exactly what what the Bible says because you go any further than that and you open yourself
20:0220:02 - up to getting things wrong to misinterpreting to pulling things out of context and because heresy in this
20:0820:08 - particular area is so damaging to a proper understanding of just the core mechanics of who God is and and how he
20:1620:16 - saves us we just need to be really careful not to do that um that is the gist of what this slide is talking
20:2520:25 - about aie you have anything you want to add um just first a slight correction um I I
20:3320:33 - believe the hypostatic union is actually describing um the uh Union of
20:4220:42 - two Natures in one person that is uh Jesus was both truly God and truly man that’s what the hypostatic Union as far
20:5120:51 - as I can remember actually speaks to I me I don’t know exactly what I said but I agree with that so
20:5920:59 - yeah yeah I just I just wanted to point that out um but everything else you say is exactly on point sticking to what the
21:0921:09 - scriptures say about um and and this is actually why uh for example just to give us a clue as to as to why it is
21:2021:20 - important to just stick to what the Bible says and try not to get off in the Weeds about this the Roman Catholic
21:2821:28 - Church made the business of the Trinity like pretty much their everything in the early stages it was they were they they
21:3721:37 - essentially seemed to be the Defenders of the Trinity and everybody else everybody who in any way disagreed with
21:4521:45 - this doctrine of the Trinity was anema an excommunicado and whatnot so there was all sorts of there were all sorts of
21:5421:54 - things going on with respect to that but these this group of people we talked about have serious trouble with the
22:0222:02 - business of Salvation accepting that the the cross of Jesus Christ is how we are saved they are also the ones who are
22:1122:11 - associating Mary with godhead with the godhead in some weird way too so all that tells us there is a degree to which
22:2122:21 - you will peer at this thing and it will really damage you it is best to stick with what the script have to say
22:2922:29 - whenever we talk about the analogies involved and whatnot they’re supposed to be teaching AIDS like you can you you
22:3722:37 - can understand this aspect of it in this way that aspect of of it in that way but it’s not quite like anything in our
22:4622:46 - experience what God is is very different than anything that we have in our experience so but but
22:5422:54 - understanding what the scriptures themselves actually say which is this it’s pretty
23:0123:01 - straightforward in scriptures the father is God the son is God the holy spirit is God the father is not the son the holy
23:1223:12 - spirit is not the Son and the Holy Spirit is not the father that’s it that’s really all there
23:1923:19 - is to it for us how this is possible how these three persons are all God and we’re not talking about three Gods is
23:3123:31 - the stuff we cannot quite W wrap our minds around it’s not what we would expect to find in creation but creation
23:4023:40 - is different from God so sticking with what the scriptures say and not going beyond what is written which is where we
23:4923:49 - find um a lot of the denominations that fight over this stuff a lot of the uh Cults that fight over this stuff the
23:5823:58 - modern day Aran that’s the Jehovah’s Witnesses and all the there is the Jesus only that Jesus is the father and he’s
24:0624:06 - the Holy Spirit there are crazy all sorts of crazy um interpretations and whatnot for us just stick with what the
24:1524:15 - scriptures say about this and what they don’t say we don’t need to stress to to stress ourselves about one day we will
24:2324:23 - be with the Lord and we will understand these things fully now I will say uh bringing up some of the the going Beyond
24:3124:31 - bits especially with regards to some of these other groups like the Catholics and the Orthodox folks so something that
24:3624:36 - they get very exercised about is what we might call the origination of the son in the spirit and so you all hear all this
24:4524:45 - discussion about the Eternal beginning of the sun and the Eternal procession of the spirit and if you don’t know what
24:5224:52 - those things mean well that’s great because the Bible doesn’t talk about this I mean they they fancy that the
24:5724:57 - Bible does and they they misinterpret some things to get there but that is what happens when you go beyond that is
25:0425:04 - what we mean by going Beyond is you know the Bible asserts in in more more or less you know we’ve gone over some of
25:1125:11 - the places here that the three members of the Trinity are all God they’re all Eternal right why do we why do we bother
25:1825:18 - figuring out does the son come from the father like what what does that even mean right they’re all God they are
25:2525:25 - injecting stuff here that doesn’t need to be um that’s what we mean by not going
25:3125:31 - beyond what is written because as soon as you do you open yourself up to all these problems so we’re gonna actually
25:3825:38 - pick back up here um in this section with a question and so someone asked uh is it appropriate for us to think about
25:4725:47 - how the three members of the Trinity are one by thinking of uh Jesus is the Father’s seed and the Holy Spirit is the
25:5525:55 - Father’s Spirit um and so Audi I’ll give you uh the opportunity to go first and and I’ll I’ll go from
26:0526:05 - there okay sure um so there is an angle from from which the second appelate applies the first
26:1726:17 - one never applies in terms of deity that mean that’s the father’s seed that never applies in
26:2526:25 - deity because the second person of the Trinity is called the son only with respect to his
26:3326:33 - humanity and when I say that um it’s it’s a bit of it’s it’s something that we might struggle a little bit with
26:4426:44 - because the Bible does not really would I say make this delineation so to speak but the son is not the son because he
26:5526:55 - was in any way orig originated by the father that’s not the idea of his sunship it’s the role he plays within
27:0527:05 - the plan of God for uh creation and the Redemption of human beings and whatnot that’s the role he is associated with
27:1627:16 - that’s why he’s called the son so if we think of the unity of the godhead and try to explain it in terms of um the son
27:2627:26 - being the father’s seat that would be not just inappropriate but quite dangerous that’s where the whole
27:3527:35 - um uh eternally begotten nonsense really comes into play but the father’s spirit that applies if we understand that each
27:4727:47 - member of the Trinity claims the other so the holy spirit is the Father’s Spirit just like you how would I put it
27:5627:56 - in a family we would be claiming each other as belonging to each other that’s how we would I mean I don’t want to cut
28:0328:03 - you off but I I feel like it’s not that I disagree with that but I think when people ask that they may be thinking of
28:1028:10 - it more from an ontological sense you know like how human beings have flesh and spirit right and we would say the
28:1628:16 - human Spirit the holy spirit is not like God and we’ve talked about this before in our past lessons it’s not like God
28:2228:22 - exists as like a shell and then the holy spirit is what gives Spirit to God if that is the sense that that’s not quite
28:3028:30 - right either but because because equally we could say that the holy spirit is the spirit of
28:3628:36 - Christ right he’s the spirit Spirit of God and because the father is God and the Christ is God you know like you can
28:4328:43 - do that equivalency but it’s not like the father or Jesus exist as husks that the spirit gives life to you know it’s
28:5128:51 - it’s that it is the spirit of God the third member of the Trinity is properly the spirit of the I mean like it you
28:5928:59 - know I I suppose it really depends what what is being asked there that’s that’s why I said that there’s an angle from
29:0629:06 - which we come where that makes sense to the to the extent that what we’re saying just like you you pointed out we could
29:1329:13 - say that the spirit is the spirit of Christ as well we still saying that he belongs to
29:2029:20 - Christ just like he so the thing is is that I just feel like there’s clearer ways to say it is all yeah that but but
29:2829:28 - then the thing is it’s not technically wrong because the Bible does point that out the Bible does bear out that this is
29:3629:36 - the spirit of the father this is the spirit of Jesus so the the when when it says that it’s speaking in terms of
29:4329:43 - possession in the fact that this is my person this is my family member this is my you name it that that’s the point
29:5429:54 - it’s not saying as I would speak of my own Spirit as something that is really intrinsically me that’s not what’s
30:0330:03 - happening there so it’s it’s not it’s not necessarily inappropriate but it can be misleading I think perhaps thinking
30:1130:11 - about the sending of the spirit helps here when we say the spirit of the Father the of you know we would think of
30:1830:18 - as possession here it’s in the same way that you might have a messenger of a king right not that the spirit is a
30:2530:25 - messenger he’s also God but it it’s not God’s spirit as in the spirit part of the nature of God or something like that
30:3530:35 - it’s like influence right right it is you know the spirit the one sent from God right like if you put that in
30:4330:43 - apposition um yeah right in same way the spirit of Christ is not so much the thing giving animating Force to the
30:5130:51 - person of Christ as it is you know the spirit of not of sent by but you know like Christ spirit that one as opposed
31:0031:00 - to a different one right um yes so yeah so that that’s that’s the point um so to speak to the question then I would say
31:1131:11 - the unity of God is not to be understood in quite that way that is the Oneness of the Trinity that’s not that’s not how we
31:2131:21 - understand it it’s in the fact that I know the word essence is technical but it really means what it normally means
31:2931:29 - that all of them are sharing one thing an isness the thing that we call Humanity
31:3931:39 - for example is an Essence but we each have our copy of that Essence but the essence of deity is not
31:4731:47 - in copies there is only one such thing only one such thing does not exist in multiple copies there’s just one of it
31:5531:55 - and these three persons share that one thing that’s why the Bible is absolutely clear about the fact that there is one
32:0432:04 - God so I think maybe one way to think about this is you know how a you use the word copy here if you have three human
32:1332:13 - beings and one of them dies the essence of humanity is still fine for the other two right they don’t they don’t impact
32:2132:21 - each other when we say that the three beings of God have share one essence that situation just it simply does not
32:3032:30 - make sense right the the three members of the Trinity if like you can’t have one of
32:3632:36 - them cease to exist because they all exist together right um it’s not separate in the same way may maybe
32:4432:44 - that’s not helpful um it’s certainly we should be sacrificed here for or sorry we can be forgiven here
32:5232:52 - for looking at that and thinking for a second and being like man you know what it’s still kind of hard to understand
32:5732:57 - um that’s because it is we should we should we should not forget the fact that this is one of those things that we
33:0633:06 - will only see very dimly very Darkly we don’t fully get it in fact we barely get it if if we were to State again what the
33:1633:16 - Bible says about this matter it is one there is one God two the father is God the the son is God the spirit is God
33:2433:24 - three the father is not the son is not the spirit the son is not the spirit is not the
33:2933:29 - father the spirit is not the son is not the father these three concepts are what we call the Trinity when you put them
33:3733:37 - together they add up to the Trinity but how this actually works the mechanics of it how there is one God and there are
33:4533:45 - three persons who are that God does not fit into our experience as human beings in creation it just doesn’t fit we can’t
33:5533:55 - make sense of it and we will not make sense of it of it until we actually stand before the Lord insisting on
34:0234:02 - spelling it out exactly is where we’re going to go beyond what is written and that is the points that we brought it
34:0934:09 - before about the what I shall call the Eternal beting and the Eternal procession of the spirit that is exactly
34:1634:16 - what we’re talking about here that is make attempts for people to make sense of it in a way that the Bible just
34:2134:21 - really doesn’t use you know they’re they’re taking some words that have certain emology and then they’re like
34:2734:27 - fixing a cookie cutter on top of it but it’s because they’re trying to say how can you have three persons that exist as
34:3534:35 - one being how does that work and they try to make it work but we can’t because the Bible doesn’t go there that’s the
34:4234:42 - point yeah yes it’s simply so appr propo to uh to the question that was asked I would say um we can say authoritatively
34:5234:52 - that the Oneness of God is not because um Jesus Jesus is the Father’s seed with respect to his Humanity
35:0235:02 - certainly he is God’s son with respect to his deity he’s of equal standing with the father father and son are simply
35:1035:10 - titler roles here neither of them is the originator of the other that’s not how that works and the father is the spirit
35:1935:19 - is the is the Father’s Spirit sure if you’re speaking to their relationship with each other in the sense that
35:2735:27 - the if if you were to change the the word father if that were possible and we don’t really have another word for it
35:3335:33 - the Bible simply gives us the identifier father the identifier son and word and the identifier Spirit but if you could
35:4035:40 - change these identifiers we would be saying this person belongs to this person this person belongs to that
35:4735:47 - person that’s the the spirit of the father Spirit of Jesus kind of relationship but when you speak of the
35:5435:54 - spirit as originating from the father either something that comes from him in the sense of coming out of him being
36:0336:03 - generated by him or that it is the animating force of the father you’d be wrong that’s not at all what the
36:1136:11 - scriptures are saying about the spirit and that’s not what the unity of the of the Trinity is really about that’s the
36:2036:20 - answer that I have to that question I agree so that’s where we’re going to wrap for
36:2936:29 - today and uh just to go over A Brief Review we first uh basically identifi the definition of the Trinity that we
36:3736:37 - have been laying out the last few lessons so three persons one essence or one Essence and three persons and then
36:4236:42 - the four corollary points that we talked about before how the members of the Trinity are all Divine persons unique
36:4836:48 - persons co-equal and co-eternal and they all share the same Essence those are things we’ve talked about in the past
36:5436:54 - lessons and then the rest of this lesson we have spent discussing about how the Trinity can just be kind of hard to
37:0037:00 - explain properly and uh God didn’t uh necessarily give us uh you know you know the way in which god um
37:1037:10 - communicated this Doctrine to us in the Bible was intentional right he didn’t like forget to add things to it or
37:1537:15 - whatever um he has told us what we most need to know without giving us either information that could be misinterpreted
37:2237:22 - or less accurate illustrations that might do more harm than good and so uh because eternity is kind of hard to
37:2837:28 - explain properly it’s hard to understand it is something that is a bit heresy prone um but we shouldn’t seek to grasp
37:3537:35 - after um what we might term rationalistic or uh philosophical explanations for it we should just stick
37:4337:43 - with what the Bible says about it that’s the only safe path here uh to keep us uh kind of within uh uh the path of what
37:5137:51 - the Trinity is without falling into the ditch on either side of the road so that’s what we’ve talked about this time
37:5737:57 - in our next lesson we will be picking up talking about illustrations for the Trinity and uh if you are wondering well
38:0338:03 - didn’t we just say that uh you know God doesn’t give us these illustrations you’d be correct so a lot of what we’re
38:0838:08 - going to talk about next time are illustrations that have been used by people in the past um but also some of
38:1438:14 - the problems that go along with them so that’s where we will pick up uh in our next meeting