Introduction - The Trinity in the Old Testament

Video

Summary

God has always been triune in nature; He did not somehow change to become three persons in New Testament times, but rather, has always existed as such. What has changed is not God, but our perspective and understanding of Him. As to why God might have chosen to veil his triune nature until the time He actually did reveal it to mankind, we put forward two explanations: that God did not reveal His triune nature in order to head off idolatry among the people of Israel, and that God did not reveal His triune nature simply because it was not possible for humanity to fully grasp it until the First Advent of Christ.

Timestamps

0:00 0:00 - Intro and outline
05:21 05:21 - Given the benefit of subsequent clarifying New Testament revelation, the Trinity is visible in the Old Testament
17:05 17:05 - Matthew 22:41-46
37:57 37:57 - Prophetic foreshortening
47:42 47:42 - Why did God decide to veil the triune nature of His essence in Old Testament times?
01:01:36 01:01:36 - Idolatry as an explanation for God’s veiling of His nature
01:15:53 01:15:53 - The person of Jesus Christ not yet come as an explanation for God’s veiling of His nature
01:35:31 01:35:31 - Summary and outro

Content

(Derived from https://ichthys.com/1Theo.htm)

Given the benefit of subsequent clarifying New Testament revelation, the Trinity is visible in the Old Testament

Trinity > Is clearly visible in Old Testament, when viewed in light of the New Testament Progressive revelation

The Trinity is not only present in the verses of the Old Testament, but portrayed clearly enough to see (with the benefit of New Testament revelation).

When God says “let us make Man in our image (Gen.1:26)
When the angels of God praise Him with their three-fold “holy, holy, holy” (Is.6:3)
When Aaron’s sons are told to “put My name” on the Israelites with a triple blessing (Num.6:24-26)

In these cases and others, the clear intent is to reflect (if not to convey) the triune nature of God. Moreover, some Old Testament scriptures cast the Trinity in even sharper relief, such as king David’s last words which in quick succession refer to God as “the Spirit of the Lord”, “the God of Israel”, and “the Rock of Israel” (2Sam.23:2-3; see 1Cor.10:4 for the image of Christ as Israel’s Rock). There are many other passages commonly cited to demonstrate the reality of the Trinity in the Old Testament, a reality shimmering just beneath the veil (e.g., Is.48:15-17; 63:9-10), but perhaps the best example is the one used by our Lord to demonstrate that His divinity was indeed prophesied by scripture (cf. Zech.2:7-13): Matthew 22:41-46. We’ll look at this passage next.

Matthew 22:41-46

Progressive revelation Progressive revelation > There are still plenty of matters veiled from us Old Testament Believers > Earnestly desired to have the knowledge we now have Angels > Are interested in God's redemptive plan for humanity

Matthew 22:41-46 | translation from Ichthys

As the Pharisees were gathering together, Jesus put a question to them, saying “What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?” They answered Him, “David’s son.” Then He said to them, “Well then, how can David, speaking in the Spirit, call Him Lord? For he says,
The Lord said to My Lord,
“Sit down at my right hand,
until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.” [Psalm 110:1]
So if David calls Him Lord, how is He his Son?” And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare to question Him any longer from that day forward.

We are not to assume that David, when he penned this prophecy under divine inspiration, saw the coming Christ as clearly as he wished to. Indeed, we have it from Christ that “many prophets and righteous men desired to see” what was being revealed to Jesus’ generation face to face, namely, the unveiling of the Messiah (Matt.13:17; Lk.10:24; cf. Jn.8:56; 1Pet.1:10-12). The revelation of Jesus Christ to the world during His 1st Advent, in addition to explaining passages such as Ps.110:1 above (Christ is David’s Son in His humanity, but David’s Lord in His deity), is also, not coincidentally, the basis for explaining many other Old Testament passages that are only fully understood by means of our likewise now more complete understanding of the Trinity.

Prophetic foreshortening

Prophetic foreshortening Interpretation > Principles > Prophetic foreshortening Prophetic foreshortening > Examples > Trinity Prophetic foreshortening > Examples > Coming of the Messiah

In the Old Testament, the three Persons stand in front of us like three mighty mountains, one after the other, all partially visible, but not readily distinguishable from each other. Only with the revelation provided by the incarnation of Jesus Christ and the New Testament do we see the Old Testament picture of the Trinity from a sidelong perspective, so that now the three mountains become visible in their own right when viewed from this new vantage point.

We should note that all three mountains have always been there, even if humanity was not previously able to distinguish them from one another. One did not suddenly become three. Instead, our perspective merely changed.

This illustration of the Trinity in the Old Testament is commonly called “prophetic foreshortening”. For more on this phenomenon, see part 1 of Coming Tribulation, section IV.1.a, “Prophetical Foreshortening”.

Why did God decide to veil the triune nature of His essence in Old Testament times?

Hypotheticals > There is one perfect Plan of God that actually happens Faith > Fully trusting God that what has happened is objectively best Faith > Giving God the benefit of the doubt

Exactly why did God decide to veil the triune nature of His essence in Old Testament times, choosing instead to only foreshadow it, in the manner discussed above?

Sometimes the explanation put forth for this veiling is the prevention of idolatry: God did not make His triune nature known to Israel in Old Testament times to help them avoid falling into idolatry (the mechanics of which we will examine in a moment). While this explanation has merit, it is not alone sufficient. We will instead argue that God did not reveal Himself in triune form before the 1st Advent of Christ simply because the Trinity can only be clearly explained and understood after the 1st Advent of Christ.

In any case, the point is God has good reasons for His progressive revelation of truth to humanity, and we need to have unshakeable faith in His wisdom and judgment. God knows what He is doing… and not in the way we humans think we do. For He is control of everything, and nothing happens except that which is part of His Plan.

Idolatry as an explanation for God’s veiling of His nature

Interpretation > Inferences have their place when they only go so far as the evidence allows Idolatry > Of Israel Israel > Theocracy > Idolatry had severe national consequences Trinity > What it is not > A pantheon

Idolatry, a major problem in ancient times and one of Israel’s most serious stumbling blocks, is often adduced as the reason for this veiling in pre-Christian times of our present knowledge of the Trinity. Certainly it is true that the threat of idolatry to the faith and practice of Old Testament believers was a very real one. We need only to consider that the first two of the “ten commandments” deal with this subject (Ex.20:1-6), and that Balaam’s counsel of idolatrous seduction was more destructive to Israel than any curse could ever have been (Num.25). The argument suggests that there was, therefore, a need to emphasize the oneness of God in the face of this very real polytheistic threat, thus obviating any possible twisting of a proper understanding of the Trinity. This explanation possesses much of value, but it does not entirely resolve the matter.

Sidenote

Pagan pantheons (not to mention pagan religions) are different from God and the true worship of Him in every way, and this would have been obvious to true believers, revelation of the Trinity notwithstanding. To state but two obvious points of departure, pagan pantheons are never even close to being “one” in purpose as the Trinity is (Jn.10:30; cf. 1Cor.3:8), nor are their individual members so integral to the existence of the whole.

The person of Jesus Christ not yet come as an explanation for God’s veiling of His nature

Interpretation > Inferences have their place when they only go so far as the evidence allows Trinity > Cannot be fully understood by humanity without the witness of the First Advent of Christ

The full answer lies in the person of Jesus Christ. Before the fact, before we see with our own eyes Christ come in the flesh, His humility, His suffering, His sacrifice for us, can we really appreciate in full the Trinity and what God has chosen to do for us in Christ’s incarnation and death on the cross? Without the accomplished reality of the incarnation of Jesus, how could we ever but dimly conceive the glory of it? And without the accomplished fact of His incarnation, how could we possibly understand and appreciate the triune nature of God? For it is only through Christ – after He has come into the world in person – that we begin to see God with the clarity of vision it has now been given us to possess (Jn.1:18; 14:9).

Just as the temple veil that symbolically separated us from the presence of God was split in two by Christ’s sacrifice on our behalf (Matt.27:51), so the veil that in the Old Testament partially obscured the person of Christ from our view has been lifted by His actual advent in the flesh – to die on our behalf. So that now, through our faith in Jesus Christ, we see God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit more clearly than we ever could before:

2 Corinthians 4:6 | translation from Ichthys

For God who said, “Let light shine forth from the darkness!”, is He who has shone forth [His light] into our hearts to illuminate our knowledge of God’s glory in the person of Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 3:14 | translation from Ichthys

For until this very day, the same veil remains [upon their unbelieving hearts] when the Old Testament is read, and it is not removed [when they hear these scriptures], because it is [only] done away with in Christ.

So:

We see the Son more clearly after He comes into the world (Jn.1:14).
The Son can only reveal the Father more clearly after He comes into the world (Jn.1:18).
The Spirit cannot be sent to indwell believers until after the Son has been glorified (Jn.7:39).

And therefore:

The Trinity can only be clearly explained and understood after the 1st Advent of Christ, a task undertaken by the New Testament.
While in the Old Testament, before the 1st Advent, the members of the Trinity are, understandably, not as clearly distinguished as they are in the New Testament.

Transcript (click to show)

Video/audio transcript

00:00 00:00 - so the next lesson that we’re going to be going over here in this series is talking about the trinity in the Old
00:06 00:06 - Testament and specifically this first lesson that we’re going to be doing is going to be talking just kind of about
00:12 00:12 - the introduction to this as a concept so the part of the lesson sorry the part of the study on ichus that goes through
00:19 00:19 - this is it’s actually pretty lengthy it’s one of the uh one of the last major sections in the study here so in the
00:26 00:26 - outline this is the third subsection of the second Point talking about the Trinity so in past lessons here we’ve
00:32 00:32 - been talking about just the definition of the Trinity uh three in person one in essence and then we talk some about the
00:38 00:38 - trinity in the Bible uh specifically we’ve looked at a lot of new testament passages that kind of make the point
00:44 00:44 - clear and now we’re going to be turning to uh the sort of traces you could say of the trinity in the Old Testament what
00:52 00:52 - passages kind of point us to it and it’s been there all along somewhat veiled from Human sight um so this first here
01:00 01:00 - in this we’re going to kind of be talking just about an introduction to kind of the concept of how the Trinity
01:06 01:06 - fit in to the Old Testament believer’s understanding of God uh so among other things we’re going to be kind of talking
01:11 01:11 - about why didn’t God just reveal himself to Old Testament Believers as being Triune in nature like what would be the
01:20 01:20 - possible reasons for that um because now that we have the New Testament uh so-called progressive revelation this
01:26 01:26 - has been made available to us but why would God not do that for the Believers in the Old Testament and so as I say
01:34 01:34 - this lesson a little bit more introductory in nature and we will move on uh a bit later talking about
01:40 01:40 - appearances of Christ in the Old Testament so-called christophanies um and we’ll get there eventually but for
01:46 01:46 - today uh we’re going to be talking about uh just the general concept of how the Trinity was always there in the Old
01:53 01:53 - Testament and we can see this more with the clarification that new testament Revelation gives us uh so it was a bit
02:01 02:01 - veiled from them but with the benefit of the writings of the New Testament and of course Jesus Christ come in the flesh as
02:08 02:08 - a human being we see it much more clearly than they did um so we’re going to be talking specifically about this
02:15 02:15 - passage from Matthew chapter 22 veres 41- 46 and what that has to do with this this concept here of the Trinity being
02:23 02:23 - visible in the Old Testament um and then we’re going to talk a bit about prophetic foreshortening as well so this
02:30 02:30 - idea that uh what they saw as one mountain if you will like looking at it headon uh so that the front part of it
02:40 02:40 - sort of prevented them from seeing the parts behind it a sort of an artistic concept here well in that same way uh so
02:50 02:50 - too was this prophecy sort of uh veiled from them and so now that we have the benefit of more Revelation in the New
02:57 02:57 - Testament we can kind of see the three members of the Trinity as distinct people um in a way that they could not
03:03 03:03 - so we’ll talk a little bit about that as a concept and then we’ll talk about why would God decided to Veil The Triune
03:10 03:10 - nature of his Essence in Old Testament times like why wouldn’t he just reveal himself to them in the same way that he
03:16 03:16 - revealed himself to us um so this gets into that that topic I’ve mentioned before about progressive revelation and
03:23 03:23 - so we’re going to be talking about two major explanations uh number one that uh the idolatry of
03:30 03:30 - people surrounding Israel is a possible explanation for God’s veiling of his nature because we’ve gone over already
03:37 03:37 - some of the heresies related to the Trinity uh are related to improperly viewing God as a Pantheon so the Trinity
03:45 03:45 - is not three separate Gods but you can sort of see how one of the things that defined Israel as separate and apart
03:54 03:54 - from their Pagan neighbors was that they were monotheistic they believed in one God and so to emphasize that Oneness uh
04:00 04:00 - so the hypothesis goes God chose not to reveal himself to uh his people in this way until Jesus Christ had come and
04:09 04:09 - ultimately the explanation that we’re going to we’re going to put forward as more convincing overall probably is that
04:16 04:16 - uh God chose not to reveal the specifics of the Trinity until Jesus Christ had come until the second member of the
04:22 04:22 - Trinity had been uh born as a human being and died for us and resurrected uh in God’s acceptance of his his payment
04:30 04:30 - because having Jesus Christ come and and take the burden for our sins on his shoulders it it really throws into light
04:39 04:39 - the plan for the trinity in the Redemption of mankind and so uh to put that a little bit differently it’s
04:45 04:45 - almost as if God couldn’t properly explain what the Trinity is like what the point of the Trinity roles are until
04:51 04:51 - Jesus Christ had come and that’s really all there is to it uh it’s not a more I don’t know mysterious or philosophical
05:00 05:00 - notion simply that uh God waited to kind of give us all the specifics of this until Jesus Christ had become a human
05:08 05:08 - being because then it makes it very clear what God’s Redemptive plan was for us so we’ll go over all of this more of
05:15 05:15 - course as we get into the lesson but that’s kind of the sneak preview here of the things that we’re going to be
05:19 05:19 - talking about here in this lesson so just to kick us off here in our introduction of the trinity as it is
05:31 05:31 - uh sort of revealed to us in the Old Testament or where we can see it active in the Old Testament we’re going to be
05:37 05:37 - talking just about this idea that it was visible if we kind of Look Backwards with the clarifi the clarifying uh
05:46 05:46 - revelation we have from the New Testament this extra information that God has given us makes it possible to
05:51 05:51 - sort of reinterpret the Old Testament scriptures in light of the new and with that if you look with eyes of Faith the
06:00 06:00 - Trinity is more than visible in the Old Testament it is there um and uh critics such as unbelieving Jews might view what
06:11 06:11 - we’re about to do with a great deal of skepticism that basically we’re just making up connections that aren’t really
06:17 06:17 - there um so you know some people wrote more books and then decided that they were just going to change how they
06:23 06:23 - interpreted the Old Testament based on their new books or something like that um we aren’t making things up because of
06:31 06:31 - course we believe that the New Testament is the inspired word of God just as much as the old and so it is no more than
06:37 06:37 - interpreting scripture with scripture um so we’re not going to get so much into the apologetic side of this here but the
06:44 06:44 - idea here is that we understand the Old Testament and uh God’s actions as a Triune being in the Old Testament
06:52 06:52 - through that uh through the lens of our understanding of him that the New Testament gives us um and so with that
06:59 06:59 - kind of see what I mean as we go here um so uh the argument here and this is word for word from ikus is that the Trinity
07:06 07:06 - is not only present in the verses of the Old Testament but actually portrayed clearly enough to see once we have that
07:14 07:14 - understanding of God that the New Testament gives us so uh three examples here that Dr luganville uses number one
07:20 07:20 - in Genesis chapter 1 even um this quotation of let us make man in our image the first person plurals here um
07:29 07:29 - and you know is that a slam dunk you know with someone reading the Old Testament
07:34 07:34 - without some of the benefit of the Revelation in the New Testament say ah this must mean that God exists in three
07:41 07:41 - persons well not really but now that we see that we can see it obviously that even from the beginning God has been
07:48 07:48 - this way um he didn’t change somehow this has always been his nature and in fact it was always there Ai and I have
07:55 07:55 - sort of mentioned before how uh some of the Old Testament believer probably would have sort of had this sliver in
08:01 08:01 - the back of their mind that what exactly does it mean for this to be plural like like how does that work um you know is
08:08 08:08 - there something there and of course they didn’t see clearly it was not given to them to see clearly uh even if they
08:14 08:14 - wished it but now that we have this Revelation when we Look Backwards at some of these passages in the Old
08:20 08:20 - Testament it can be clear to us that God has always been this way in fact the Trinity was there um just now we can see
08:27 08:27 - it more clearly with the benefit of this h it so second one Isaiah 6:3 um this is a verse talking about the
08:36 08:36 - praise uh that the God is due so they call out to one another saying holy holy holy is the Lord of hosts the whole
08:44 08:44 - earth is full of his glory so you will note the threefold holies here holy holy holy not just one not just two but three
08:51 08:51 - and that very much Echoes the idea of the Trinity and then in Numbers Chapter 6 and go actually pull this one up since
08:59 08:59 - it’s a little bit longer a couple verses here numbers 6: 24- 26 says the Lord bless you and keep you the Lord make his
09:08 09:08 - face shine on you and be gracious to you the Lord lift up his countenance on you and give you peace uh you may actually
09:14 09:14 - hear this commonly used as a benediction in uh Services you know like uh uh church services you know the pastor
09:21 09:21 - might say this as people are are kind of service is closing out filing out of the the room um so this this benediction
09:28 09:28 - here you can see the three-fold repetition um the Lord bless you and keep you the Lord make his face shine on
09:34 09:34 - you the Lord lift up his countenance on you um the three is present right there and of course this is like far from
09:40 09:40 - comprehensive these are just several examples that we’re pulling up to see how uh if we look with this benefit of
09:48 09:48 - hindsight you can see the Trinity present in the Old Testament as well um so in these cases and others as I say
09:56 09:56 - not comprehensive the clear intent is to reflect if not to convey the Triune nature of God that God exists in three
10:04 10:04 - persons yet sharing the same Essence as we’ve gone over in our lessons previously so in addition to that some
10:12 10:12 - Old Testament scriptures cast the trinity in even sharper relief such as King David’s Last Words which in quick
10:18 10:18 - succession refer to God as the spirit of the Lord the god of Israel and the rock of Israel and so this is a quotation
10:25 10:25 - from 2 Samuel chapter 23 can go ahead and read that one too says the spirit of the Lord spoke to me
10:32 10:32 - and his word was on my tongue the god of Israel said the rock of Israel spoke to me he who rules over men righteously who
10:39 10:39 - rules in the fear of God um so again threefold repetition here and you can also see uh this quotation in 1
10:50 10:50 - Corinthians chapter 10 in the New Testament I’m talking about Christ being the rock here um Christ as Israel’s Rock
10:57 10:57 - specifically actually not just like the Cornerstone but Christ is Israel’s Rock um and so these are not the only
11:05 11:05 - passages again um uh that one there is you know another obvious parallel in addition to the three we just went over
11:13 11:13 - um but there are plenty of other passages that really do demonstrate the reality of the trinity in the Old
11:19 11:19 - Testament uh something that was veiled yet present and so there are a couple more passages here from Isaiah um I may
11:27 11:27 - not go over all of the but I would encourage folks to look at the references here um but the perhaps the
11:35 11:35 - best example um is the one that Jesus himself uses to demonstrate that his divinity was indeed prophec by scripture
11:44 11:44 - and um we’re going to go ahead and look at this one uh as a standalone uh sort of as a standalone passage just look at
11:51 11:51 - it a little bit more because it is used by Jesus in the gospels in fact to demonstrate his divinity um so
12:00 12:00 - um that is kind of where we’re going to turn next but any of the passages that we’ve gone over here in this uh sort of
12:06 12:06 - first opening um including this 2 Samuel passage um anything more to say on those Audi or just on this concept of the
12:14 12:14 - Trinity being there but failed in the Old Testament not really um I think you’ve really covered everything it was
12:24 12:24 - there and even though it was not fully understood or fully um described in the Scriptures it was there all the passages
12:36 12:36 - you mentioned are proofs and one of the ones that uh um I’ve mentioned quite a few times in the series is Zechariah 2
12:43 12:43 - verse I believe 9 um where yeah so it’s quoted here on this slide is yes this one You’ mentioned this one
12:52 12:52 - multiple times yeah yeah so we have we have in the Old Testament multiple descriptions that should tell anyone
13:03 13:03 - there was at least a multiplicity in the godhead there was a godhead of some sort even if it was not
13:10 13:10 - fully understood or fully described and um as to why what you said was very true that um the the the uh veiling of that
13:24 13:24 - truth was because of the idolatry of the times there was also the fact that well the human the human race as as an
13:34 13:34 - organism had to mature up to a point that they could actually Bear certain truths just as the Lord Jesus said to
13:40 13:40 - the apostles that um um he had much to say to them but they could not bear it yet there was a point at which they
13:49 13:49 - could handle some of those things it’s true both of human beings on an individual level and also on a corporate
13:55 13:55 - level so um there is no question then that this was there it was it it it did not become true just because of the New
14:06 14:06 - Testament it was always the case like you said yeah I mean and that really is that’s always the thing to keep in mind
14:13 14:13 - with progressive revelation uh we are big earlier in this study we we emphasize time and again how God’s
14:20 14:20 - Essence does not change that is sort of the characteristic of divinity that makes God so separate from us because
14:27 14:27 - his externality to T um means that he is unlike Us in this way human beings change we can sometimes
14:35 14:35 - be sort of capricious and fickle in uh our passions or our Pursuits but God isn’t like that um and his immutability
14:44 14:44 - if you will is such a fundamental characteristic to him that we really should not downplay it um and as that
14:51 14:51 - relates to progressive revelation all we should say is that um just because we learn more about God and
15:00 15:00 - God reveals more of himself to humanity doesn’t mean that God was ever different it just means that our understanding of
15:07 15:07 - him is different how much Humanity was given to see of him has changed um and that’s true also not only here also in
15:16 15:16 - just uh the coming of Jesus Christ his suffering as the suffering servant to pay for our sins um not necessarily just
15:24 15:24 - limited to the triun nature of God um that is progressive revelation shows up in areas too including prophecy for
15:31 15:31 - example uh but this is one of the the classic examples of it um as God relates to humankind is what things does he keep
15:41 15:41 - uh sort of veiled until the right time um so uh there’s kind of this word in in Greek I I it escapes me off the top of
15:49 15:49 - my off the top of my head but the the normal word for for time in Greek is Kronos um and so that’s kind of like
15:56 15:56 - what time of day it is or just time as a uh numerical thing but the Greeks also had a word uh that that represented the
16:06 16:06 - right time to do something or the uh opportune time to do something there’s a word for it I don’t remember it off the
16:12 16:12 - top of my head um but that concept is sort of central to what this idea of progressive revelation gets at um fact I
16:19 16:19 - think we may have a slide on it you know I don’t want to go too far ahead I’m pretty sure we do in fact Progressive
16:24 16:24 - well no we have prophetic for short things so I can ramble here a bit more then um so progressive revelation is
16:29 16:29 - just that that there is a proper time for God to reveal these things to humanity and not before then because in
16:36 16:36 - his perfect form knowledge God knows when that right time is for the revelation of Truth um
16:44 16:44 - so indeed indeed all right well that’s the basic idea here of the Trinity being visible
16:52 16:52 - in the Old Testament uh especially viewed in light of our greater understanding of God that the New
16:58 16:58 - Testament revelation gives us so next we’re going to go ahead and take a closer look at this passage in Matthew
17:03 17:03 - chap 22 specifically so now we’re going to look at that passage we mentioned here
17:11 17:11 - Matthew Chap 22: 41-46 and we had just mentioned that uh Jesus uses this passage um to
17:20 17:20 - demonstrate his divinity and that it was indeed prophecy it was not something that he was just making up but it had he
17:27 17:27 - had been spoken of already so this is in Matthew 22 picking up at verse 41 as the Pharisees were gathering together Jesus
17:36 17:36 - put a question to them saying what do you think about the Messiah whose son is he they answered him David’s son then he
17:44 17:44 - said to them well then how can David speaking in the spirit call him Lord for he says the Lord said to my Lord sit
17:53 17:53 - down at my right hand until I make your enemies a foot stol for your feet and this is quoting psalm 110
18:00 18:00 - verse1 and so if David calls him Lord how is he his son and no one was able to answer him a word nor did anyone dare to
18:10 18:10 - ask him questions any longer from that day forward so this uh passage is probably
18:17 18:17 - familiar to us this is one of the most famous Messianic references in the Old Testament that’s how you you’ll hear it
18:23 18:23 - termed uh so-called Messianic Psalms point forward to Christ as the Messiah so Psalm 110 this passage specifically
18:31 18:31 - comes up a lot in this as demonstrating Jesus’s Divinity um so David’s son according to the flesh but God proper um
18:41 18:41 - by Nature you know the God man this is who Jesus is um and so this Paradox of you know being David’s son yet his Lord
18:51 18:51 - this is what had the phy stumped such that none of them were willing to talk to him anymore but nonetheless um I
18:58 18:58 - don’t know you thought about this but when David wrote this down what what do you think David thought about this what
19:05 19:05 - does this mean right what does it mean the Lord said to my Lord because when David was writing this we know David had
19:11 19:11 - a blessing of the Holy Spirit um not all people in the Old Testament were indwelt um or maybe indwell is not quite the
19:18 19:18 - right word because it was kind of like an anointing of the Spirit uh many of the prophets in the Old Testament did uh
19:24 19:24 - David did uh you know he was given to write a lot of scripture in the Old Testament
19:29 19:29 - um but this this anointing of the Holy Spirit if you will um led him to write some of these words and we can imagine
19:36 19:36 - that David probably marveled at them and wondered what exactly they meant because we know that that David was looking
19:43 19:43 - forward to the Messiah um you know as the Jews did God’s promised to deliver Humanity from their sins all the way
19:51 19:51 - back in Genesis chapter 3 we’ve mentioned before the Proto evangelium the animal skins given to wash away the
19:59 19:59 - sins of humanity it has been a promise that God has given Humanity from the very beginning and so David as a man of
20:06 20:06 - Faith would have been looking towards God’s Deliverance of his people somehow but he would not have understood Christ
20:14 20:14 - um so Isaiah Isaiah chapter 53 when Isaiah was writing about the suffering servant how much exactly did he know
20:22 20:22 - what all of that meant you know um that’s actually a question is probably not super productive for us to spend
20:27 20:27 - lots of time on but the point is that these men in the past they wanted to look into these
20:34 20:34 - things they wanted to understand what the messiah’s coming would be like and and kind of what would happen um but in
20:43 20:43 - fact this isn’t just conjecture on our part um we have directly from the Bible that many prophets and righteous men
20:49 20:49 - desired to see what was being revealed to Jesus’s generation face to face that is the unveiling of the Messiah so
20:56 20:56 - that’s a quote here from uh Matthew chap 13: 17 says for truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired
21:05 21:05 - to see what you see and did not see it and to hear what you hear and they did not hear it you know another uh another
21:12 21:12 - cross reference there from the other synoptics in Luke chapter 10 verse 24 says the same thing and then we also
21:18 21:18 - have this passage in John chapter 8 and uh it says your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day and he saw it and was glad
21:27 21:27 - now that’s a a puzzling thing what does that mean exactly um well we don’t we don’t know exactly but Abraham looking
21:34 21:34 - forward in faith to to the Deliverance of God’s people through the Messiah well that is what is in view but exactly what
21:41 21:41 - did Abraham see it’s kind of again maybe not the most productive use of time to get very focused on that point exactly
21:49 21:49 - but the point is they didn’t see it fully they didn’t see it completely revealed and then this passage in First
21:55 21:55 - Peter is probably the clearest uh rendition of this concept that we’re talking about here um so 1 Peter 1:
22:04 22:04 - 10-12 as to this salvation the prophets who prophecied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and
22:10 22:10 - inquiries seeking to know what person or time the spirit of Christ within them was indicating as he predicted the
22:17 22:17 - sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow it was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves but you in
22:24 22:24 - these things which now have been announced to you through those who preach the gospel To You by The Holy the
22:28 22:28 - Holy Spirit Sent From Heaven things into which Angels long to look and so far be it just from this concept being limited
22:36 22:36 - to uh Old Testament prophets or or people like David and Abraham the angels are interested in this too because it’s
22:44 22:44 - not like uh even as powerful as they are they’re not omniscient and so when God does things angels have a great deal
22:53 22:53 - more uh perspective and uh a capacity for long understanding that we do because they aren’t Bound by uh space
23:02 23:02 - time and very finite lives in the same way that we are however even angels don’t understand everything that God is
23:08 23:08 - doing in his plan for the world now I think it is good of us to hypothesize that they probably understand more than
23:15 23:15 - we do generally speaking but they didn’t understand the completeness of what God was doing through the Incarnation of
23:24 23:24 - Jesus Christ and through him paying for our sins on the cross um a were curious about this as well much
23:31 23:31 - less the prophets and people like David and Abraham and so all of this this is again getting to that idea of
23:39 23:39 - progressive revelation and the fact that many of these Old Testament believers they knew that the Messiah was coming
23:46 23:46 - that he was going to save Israel and in fact the world from its sins um and they wanted to understand this the unveiling
23:53 23:53 - of the Messiah right they desired to see these things and they did not see hear these things and did not hear um and
24:01 24:01 - this didn’t catch God by surprise this has been God’s plan to unveil himself to humanity and uh his Redemptive plan to
24:10 24:10 - humanity through the sending of Jesus Christ it has always been the plan but that he didn’t reveal it to all of the
24:18 24:18 - Old Testament Believers at least not fully that was intentional he didn’t like mess up and failed to tell them or
24:24 24:24 - something and so the revelation of Jesus Christ to the world during his first Advent in addition to explaining
24:32 24:32 - passages such as Psalm 110 and uh that is uh Christ is David’s son in his humanity and that’s because you can
24:40 24:40 - trace uh in the genealogies presented in Matthew and Luke you can trace Jesus’s genealogy back to David um however even
24:48 24:48 - though Christ is David’s son in his human uh in the human part of him in his human well I’m going to use Humanity
24:55 24:55 - rather than human nature so we don’t get hung up on the word nature but in his Humanity Christ is David’s son but in
25:01 25:01 - his deity he is David’s Lord he is the second person of the Trinity the Son part of the godhead Eternal omniscient
25:10 25:10 - outside of SpaceTime and this is that great mystery that this one by the way always stays a mystery we still don’t
25:17 25:17 - get this one perfectly how can how can Jesus Christ be fully God yet fully man at the same time um you know there’s a
25:25 25:25 - word for that theology it’s called the hypostatic union but the point in this is that this is how Jesus fulfills this
25:34 25:34 - Prophecy from Psalm 110 he is David’s son but he is also David’s Lord in his deity and so when you take this passage
25:42 25:42 - it’s actually a pretty good prototype for explaining many other Old Testament passages that you can kind of only
25:49 25:49 - understand fully by means of our more complete understanding of the Trinity that we get through the New Testament um
25:55 25:55 - so the words of Psalm 110 were true um they have never not been true God knew this but the Old Testament prophets and
26:04 26:04 - David didn’t understand exactly what it was that this was getting at and in fact the Angels may not have either um and so
26:12 26:12 - this is what the basis of of this unveiling of Jesus Christ you may call it the revelation of Jesus Christ and in
26:21 26:21 - fact um it’s one of the the more um important things that last book of the Bible that we Revelation actually the
26:30 26:30 - full title is the revelation of Jesus Christ um that is the name of the book like if you read it in the Greek that’s
26:37 26:37 - what it says um because it is the revealing of the Messiah in fact he’s going to come return with the crown this
26:46 26:46 - time in Revelation chapter 19 he’s coming as the Conquering King not the suffering servant um but Jesus Christ
26:52 26:52 - was revealed the first time too um this Revelation that we’re talking about and the unveil ailing of the Messiah that’s
27:00 27:00 - the the term that um well if not this you know like all the passages that we’ve gone through
27:06 27:06 - here in the gospels as well as um uh John chapter 8 talking about Abraham and the first Peter passage most clear of
27:14 27:14 - all talking about these things that were veiled to them um so that is kind of the concept
27:22 27:22 - fleshed out a little bit more that all these Believers in the Old Testament they had an Inkling of some of the
27:28 27:28 - things to come um they knew that the Messiah would come and save them from their sins but they didn’t see the full
27:34 27:34 - picture and we can kind of only understand um the the plan that God had all along in this um instructing them to
27:43 27:43 - write the words that they did through that Revelation that we now have through the coming of Jesus Christ and what he
27:49 27:49 - did for us and the the writings in the Bible in the New Testament to explain all of this to us we kind of only see
27:57 27:57 - the full picture when you take all of that into account so aie you have any more comments on this passage in Matthew
28:05 28:05 - specifically or or some of the passages we read in terms of the truth being veiled from the prophets and David and
28:12 28:12 - so on well one thing that this seemed to jump out at me was that that was yet
28:19 28:19 - another place where you had a very explicit um description of the multiplicity of the godhead so to speak
28:31 28:31 - so because and David says the Lord said to my lord well who would qualify to be David’s
28:39 28:39 - Lord if it isn’t God himself he it would be interesting if he was talking about um an angel of some
28:49 28:49 - sort so yeah I think that’s that’s one of the things that um should be very clear he knew that there was some
28:56 28:56 - multiplicity but what did me and how many persons of the Trinity were involved he might not have known as
29:06 29:06 - to um how this was veiled it’s I think it’s it’s obvious from all the passages that
29:13 29:13 - we read I was I was particularly um interested as I was growing up reading Matthew
29:22 29:22 - whenever Jesus I read Jesus say that righteous men and Prophets and Kings long to see the things you see and to
29:30 29:30 - touch the things that you touch and hear the things that you hear but they were not given to you know it was given to
29:36 29:36 - you instead I was like like even great Believers like Elijah he Believers like David like
29:47 29:47 - Isaiah all of these people who you know the Lord called them his friends um I think it was uh I don’t know if it was
29:54 29:54 - Amos or another Prophet who said that God would not do do a thing without talking to his his friends the prophets
30:03 30:03 - so you you had all these people and the Lord did not give them this understanding until much later
30:11 30:11 - so it it’s it was a thing the Lord the Lord kept the fullness of this Revelation from them but while while you
30:21 30:21 - were talking St I was also thinking about the fact that even us today there’s a lot of information that we
30:27 30:27 - wish we could have that we don’t have I mean however however perfect your reading of the Bible is however perfect
30:35 30:35 - your understanding of the scriptures is this just information that the Lord has not provided in the scriptures you don’t
30:40 30:40 - have it we don’t know how many Ang Angels there are we don’t know how many our compliments of Believers in the
30:47 30:47 - church age ought to be we don’t know precisely how life in we have a lot of information how on the Millennium and we
30:57 30:57 - don’t know exactly how life daytoday life the the nties of life in the Millennium
31:04 31:04 - would be we don’t know even the tribulation which we’re very interested in and we have loads and loads of
31:11 31:11 - information about we don’t know how daytoday life in the tribulation will be and when we when we talk about the
31:18 31:18 - Eternal State it’s like this white um like a a white out you know it’s just going to be perfect it’s not
31:28 31:28 - going to have any of the difficulties and hardships of this life but you don’t know anything else and if you want to be
31:35 31:35 - really curious curious about it you’re still not going to find anything out because the Lord does not provide the
31:40 31:40 - information in the scriptures so it’s it’s we have the same sort of issue except that in their own
31:47 31:47 - case it had to do with who God is they they didn’t know very much just how the persons who the persons of of the
31:57 31:57 - godhead were and how their rules were were distributed they didn’t know anything much about all of that they did
32:03 32:03 - know that there was some multiplicity because they spoke about it but what it meant they could not have known likewise
32:10 32:10 - just like you said they didn’t know how the coming of the Messiah would have been which is an interesting thing we we
32:16 32:16 - have to think about this when Isaiah was prophesying about the Messiah on the one hand he was prophesying about someone
32:23 32:23 - who was going to suffer and die on the other hand he was prophesying about someone who was going to rule the world
32:29 32:29 - and this person was God somehow I I can imagine that if he TR if he read his own writings he would have been like I don’t
32:35 32:35 - know what I just said it would have been really interesting to be Isaiah at that
32:42 32:42 - point um but the scriptures are quite clear like I said that they didn’t know what we know today it was not given to
32:49 32:49 - them to know and this this also is why I think of their Fai sometimes as being significantly great and probably greater
32:58 32:58 - than that of people of our days even though with uh when much is given to you much is
33:05 33:05 - expected of you and with with the explosion and and the completeness of the cannon explosion of Truth in our
33:11 33:11 - days we have more to fight with the enemy in the own days of course it was a different
33:16 33:16 - situation but still we blessed to have more than we more than they did yeah that’s what I
33:25 33:25 - and I really do think that is a point that we should kind of carry with us as we go about trying to do what God wants
33:31 33:31 - of us is that we are in fact blessed and in fact in the history of the world we’re sort of the odd ones out here so
33:39 33:39 - before Abraham that period 2,000 years give or take from Adam to Abraham well they didn’t even have the law pointing
33:47 33:47 - them to the Messiah right this is a so-called age of the Patriarchs um sorry not age of the Patriarchs the age of the
33:54 33:54 - Gentiles um and then from Abraham to Christ we have the age of the Patriarchs so Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and the
34:02 34:02 - 12 tribes of Israel and uh they had the Shadows of the law pointing them to Christ right the ritual sacrifices and
34:10 34:10 - all the symbolism in the temple but now we have the cannon of scripture the very mind of Christ as Paul says in First
34:19 34:19 - Corinthians um how much more than does God expect of us on account of this um because they did not know they had
34:27 34:27 - ignorance as an excuse like not that they would throw it up as an excuse but it is objective fact that they did not
34:34 34:34 - see as clearly as we did not because they were substandard Believers but because God had not given it to them it
34:41 34:41 - was not yet time as we said um and so on that account um when we have all of this Truth at our fingertips nowadays we have
34:52 34:52 - all of this this teaching the shoulders of Bible teachers for Millennia we can stand on in so far as they have done
34:59 34:59 - their due diligence and and contributed to our understanding of the truth well what is our excuse for living sort of
35:06 35:06 - mediocre Christian lives then given everything that God has given to us um and so this isn’t to try to crush us
35:14 35:14 - with some burden it is to just talk about what we have been given this idea of the truth revealed to us is kind of
35:23 35:23 - something that I just I I feel like a lot of us don’t we don’t talk about that very much we don’t metabolize it try to
35:29 35:29 - think on it what does it mean for us to live in this age where God has revealed all these things to us um and so of
35:37 35:37 - course this is why learning believing applying the Bible is so important to us because it is God’s truth it is the
35:43 35:43 - truth that the Old Testament Believers wish they had um and we have it at our fingertips um so not overly belabor that
35:53 35:53 - point more but I think it’s very very uh appropo to the situation but it’s also something that we should take away from
36:00 36:00 - everything that we’re talking about here um so much less just understanding of the Trinity but just understanding of
36:05 36:05 - what God did for us and how he will save us um AI made a statement something to the effect that maybe we don’t always
36:12 36:12 - appreciate the faith of those in the Old Testament but we kind of understand that we’re forgiven on account of what Christ
36:18 36:18 - did for us on the cross well because we understand what the cross meant you know that it was is Christ paying for our
36:25 36:25 - sins as the will substitute the people in the Old Testament they didn’t have that to Look
36:32 36:32 - Backwards at they didn’t have this sort of guarantee you know they they didn’t see Jesus crucified for their sins and
36:40 36:40 - understand that God actually did pay he paid for all of it they just had to believe him that he would um because God
36:45 36:45 - told them that they would be saved and they would be delivered and they kind of had to take his word for it I’m not that
36:51 36:51 - we don’t of course believing in Jesus Christ and what he did for us still requires faith on our part but the point
36:56 36:56 - is they did it without understanding we at least have an understanding of well how exactly
37:03 37:03 - will God save us um he saves us through the cross that is that is in fact how he saves everybody but Old Testament
37:10 37:10 - Believers like this passage I think it’s Romans 325 I want to say um talks about how people in the Old Testament were uh
37:19 37:19 - you know they were saved very much by faith because they didn’t understand uh they were saved on
37:25 37:25 - credit was kind of what I was going to word the god passed over their sins because all sin was paid for it by
37:31 37:31 - Christ on the cross um so anyway don’t want to get off topic there but um indeed we have this blessing that we
37:39 37:39 - have been given with this truth that has been revealed to us in our time um and so we just need to appreciate that and
37:46 37:46 - try to uh do right by God in uh kind of working out what he wants for us given this knowledge that has been passed down
37:55 37:55 - to us um so the next thing we’re going to talk about here in examining this introduction to
38:05 38:05 - the idea of the trinity in the Old Testament is the concept of prophetic foreshorten so I kind of mentioned this
38:12 38:12 - in the initial intros section of this lesson although I think I kind of butchered it a bit um but now that I
38:18 38:18 - have the text in front of me hopefully I’ll do a better job here so the idea of foreshortening as a concept in art um or
38:26 38:26 - how we represent like threedimensional reality on two Dimensions is this idea of if you have
38:34 38:34 - an object in front of another object visually it kind of like covers up the thing behind it right so if you have uh
38:41 38:41 - maybe a line of people you can see the first person in the line but maybe not the person behind them because they’re
38:48 38:48 - blocked by the person in front of them and so in this mountain analogy which is is often a good uh is the one used
38:57 38:57 - when people try to explain this concept in terms of theology if you have a range of mountains so you have a line of them
39:04 39:04 - as commonly happens with the tectonic plates and you know it’s kind of how mountains are formed right they form in
39:09 39:09 - lines not halfhazard um well when you have a range of mountains like this and you are standing in front of the first
39:17 39:17 - one that first mountain is going to block your visibility of the mountains behind it and that is the idea of
39:24 39:24 - foreshortening and so prophetic forh is the same concept that we have in art and then we’re going to apply that to
39:31 39:31 - prophecy and so in the Old Testament the three persons in the Trinity stand in front of us like three Mighty mountains
39:39 39:39 - one after the other all partially visible but not readily distinguishable from each other and so you might see
39:47 39:47 - bits and pieces there but the amalgamation we can’t tell that it’s three separate things not one thing
39:55 39:55 - because when we look at it headon all we see is this is this mountain before us and we can’t distinguish the three
40:02 40:02 - Mountains from each other so only with the Revelation provided by the Incarnation of Jesus Christ and the New
40:08 40:08 - Testament do we see the Old Testament picture of the Trinity from a sidelong perspective so that now the three
40:15 40:15 - mountains become visible in their own right when viewed from this new vantage point and so the fundamental point to
40:24 40:24 - kind of keep in mind when we talk about all this is that all three three mountains have always been there even if
40:30 40:30 - Humanity was not previously able to distinguish them from one another that is it’s not like after the New Testament
40:36 40:36 - God suddenly like split in three you know as if he I don’t know mutated or something um because as we’ve been
40:42 40:42 - saying God does not change that is a very fundamental core aspect of God’s nature God does not change and so given
40:50 40:50 - that this three Mountain version of God shall we say has always been how God Is Right persons one Essence that has
40:59 40:59 - always been the nature of the Trinity but just because we didn’t see it doesn’t mean it wasn’t there and so
41:06 41:06 - again one did not suddenly become three instead our perspective merely changed and so now that we see God from this new
41:13 41:13 - vantage point so rather than uh looking at the first mountain right in front of us and and having our visibility
41:20 41:20 - obstructed we we are now looking at it from a sidelong vantage point and we can see all three mountains in the mountain
41:26 41:26 - range and they are clearly distinguishable from one another to us because we have this new vantage point
41:33 41:33 - because we have the Revelation provided by the Incarnation of Jesus Christ and the New Testament we can see the three
41:40 41:40 - members of the Trinity clearly distinguished from one another like the folks in the Old Testament times could
41:46 41:46 - not because they didn’t have that Revelation and so this is is commonly used on prophetic foreshortening again
41:52 41:52 - in fact not only used of the Trinity very commonly used when speaking of the return of Jesus Christ too because we
41:59 41:59 - have the prophesied uh you know the the coming of the Messiah um in all this Old Testament prophecy and some of that was
42:07 42:07 - fulfilled when Jesus came uh to die for human sin on the cross and some of it will only be fulfilled when Jesus
42:13 42:13 - returns for a second time again compare like Revel Revelation 19: 11 and following when Jesus comes in glory for
42:22 42:22 - the second time the return of Christ as the Conquering King all that other prophecy about Christ return will be
42:28 42:28 - fulfilled but for the longest time people before the first coming of Christ they thought that they were going to get
42:36 42:36 - the king the first time um they wanted Jesus to come and kick out the Romans um because Judea in the time that the
42:42 42:42 - Christ was born and and uh lived his life in Judea was occupied by the Romans and so uh they wanted Jesus to come as
42:52 42:52 - the Conquering King right then that’s the Messiah that they were looking for not the suffering servant of Isaiah 53
42:58 42:58 - even though the suffering servant was there in the Bible they thought that they were going to get the Conquering
43:02 43:02 - King up front and that idea of prophetic foreshortening is just as apparent there in the two comings of Christ as it is in
43:11 43:11 - the Trinity because um both comings of Christ the first and the second when he comes with the sword so to speak well
43:18 43:18 - they’re both there in Old Testament prophecy but a lot of the Old Testament folks didn’t distinguish the two comings
43:26 43:26 - from each other they didn’t understand how they were different they saw them as one and the same in the same way that
43:31 43:31 - when you look at the three members of the trinity in the Old Testament you you might have this conception of them as
43:37 43:37 - being one thing even though when you look from that different perspective now you can clearly see them as three
43:43 43:43 - distinct members of this this Triune hole um so that’s just another example of prophetic foreshortening this is not
43:51 43:51 - unique to the doctrine of the Trinity is kind of what I’m trying to say um so uh in fact fact ichus has an entire section
43:59 43:59 - on this concept in theology um so this is actually part of the coming tribulation series part of part one and
44:05 44:05 - so I mean obviously we’re not going to go through all of this but it is one of the paradigms that we need to keep in
44:11 44:11 - mind when we when we interpret Prophecy in the Bible um so I encourage folks who are interested uh the first part of the
44:18 44:18 - coming tribulation series the section is called prophetic fores shortening um so Aus has this written up because it is
44:25 44:25 - important to help us understand um the nature of God’s revelation of Truth to us again just two examples
44:31 44:31 - we’ve gone through here the members of the Trinity as well as the uh the two separate comings of Christ these are are
44:38 44:38 - two not the only ones there’s more examples too but two examples of prophetic for shortening in theology
44:44 44:44 - Audi you have uh any more points to make on this concept in general I doubt that I’m going to be making any new points
44:51 44:51 - but again if you look at those two passages that that we looked at recently um the Lord said to my Lord and um the
45:01 45:01 - Lord Almighty has sent me and the person who is speaking is the Lord Almighty so that’s Zechariah 2 and um I believe it
45:09 45:09 - was PSM I don’t remember what Psalm it was again so when you look at these two things they again give you that
45:16 45:16 - demonstration a very graphic demonstration of what we’re talking about because the person who is Penning
45:23 45:23 - these things down would be seeing something suggests there might be more than one
45:29 45:29 - mountain here but he can’t clearly see the other Mountain he can’t clearly see it there is a mystery here the Lord
45:38 45:38 - Almighty is speaking about the Lord Almighty and um the Lord is speaking to my
45:46 45:46 - Lord again you can tell there’s a mountain range it’s just really hard to distinguish one from the other it’s only
45:54 45:54 - with the benefit of the New Testament that we can say oh one is is actually the Son and the other is the spirit and
46:00 46:00 - yet there’s another one who’s the father and you can actually say oh this one does this and the other does that and
46:06 46:06 - the other does the last does something else it’s with the benefit of the New Testament and the gift of the spirit
46:15 46:15 - this is something that is worth um dwelling upon a little bit I think that the gift of the spirit to live within us
46:22 46:22 - provided us with a with an ability to see these things in a way that the those of the Old Testament could not like
46:32 46:32 - Steven mentioned um people in Old Testament times could have an unction of the Spirit come upon them for short
46:39 46:39 - periods but they did not have the spirit living inside of them because that their sins were yet to be paid for this is one
46:46 46:46 - of the benefits of the cross for us so that we have actually become able we have been brought into a place where we
46:51 46:51 - have innate to us the ability to actually understand these things so um yeah that’s that’s what I would
47:00 47:00 - add to what you’ve said I think you’ve covered everything really there’s not much I say yeah it’s a good point um and
47:07 47:07 - that that importance of the spirit like you said um you know all of this spiritual truth I suppose we can’t just
47:13 47:13 - take it for granted but all of our understanding comes through the indwelling spirit um these aren’t just
47:19 47:19 - intellectual matters we grasp them spiritually um and so that is important because we wouldn’t be able to
47:25 47:25 - understand it all if God didn’t see F to help open our eyes um so just a buffer against human arrogance some is
47:32 47:32 - understanding that our understanding of God’s plan is well mediated through God indwelling us and without that we would
47:39 47:39 - still be very blind indeed so sort of as hinted at in the
47:48 47:48 - introductory part of this lesson um I mentioned kind of just bringing up this question of well why did God decide to
47:55 47:55 - Veil his trying nature in Old Testament times um so why wouldn’t God reveal himself to people in Old Testament times
48:05 48:05 - that he was Triune you know that that his Essence was Triune that three beings one Essence why didn’t he reveal himself
48:12 48:12 - as a Triune god um and so uh we know that he foreshadowed it it was seen kind of clearly there in some of the passages
48:21 48:21 - we’ve been through in the three-fold repetition of holies um even more explicitly in in this this passage from
48:28 48:28 - Psalm 110 and that passage in Zechariah 2 that AI has brought up before um well in all of these places we see the
48:37 48:37 - Trinity uh sort of described in veiled fashion it’s there but kind of not as explicitly so why didn’t God as
48:46 48:46 - explicitly reveal himself to the people in the Old Testament and so sometimes um you’ll hear as an explanation put forth
48:55 48:55 - the prevention of Idol Tre and so that is the idea goes something like this God did not make his Triune nature known to
49:02 49:02 - Israel in Old Testament times to help them falling into idolatry and so we’ll kind of talk about the mechanics of this
49:09 49:09 - um in a separate you know a separate section in just a second here but uh kind of introd introducing this as a
49:17 49:17 - possible explanation um this has Merit and it’s not that this isn’t true but it’s just not the only part the only
49:25 49:25 - reason why God doesn’t do this um so we’re going to also argue that God did not reveal himself in Triune form before
49:31 49:31 - the first Advent of Christ simply because the Trinity can only be clearly explained and understood after the first
49:38 49:38 - Advent of Christ and so um you know we’ll get to that in just a second here um these are the two reasons that we’re
49:46 49:46 - going to be putting forth for Why God decided to Veil this truth from people before the Advent of Christ um and so
49:53 49:53 - the point is as we’ve been going over here God has good reasons for his progressive revelation of Truth to
49:58 49:58 - humanity and we need to have unshakable faith in his wisdom and judgment that is God knows what he’s doing and that’s not
50:07 50:07 - in the way that we humans think we do uh that is that we think we know what we’re doing because God is in complete control
50:12 50:12 - of everything and nothing happens except that which is part of his plan and so um what I’m kind of getting at in this last
50:20 50:20 - paragraph here this is me not So Much from the study um is that we need to be approaching this question of well why
50:27 50:27 - didn’t God do this or why didn’t God do that from the reasons of well God certainly has very good reasons so what
50:33 50:33 - are those reasons do you see how those are kind of two different things right um like as in phrasing it like wouldn’t
50:41 50:41 - it have been better if God had done blank well we know on faith that it could not be better because what God
50:50 50:50 - does is always the best and the purest and uh what of all things that could be done his plan is perfect that it isn’t
50:58 50:58 - ever a matter of could there have been something better but what are possible explanations for Why God acted in this
51:07 51:07 - way you know like can we see why God did it this way and just as one side note before we we carry on here
51:15 51:15 - sometimes that isn’t even given to us um we are not owed an explanation um God can act as he sees fit because he is the
51:25 51:25 - Creator and and owner and rer of the universe and he doesn’t have to justify himself to us but the mindset that we
51:31 51:31 - need to adopt in this is not that asking questions is bad but that we need to do it with enough respect for God that we
51:38 51:38 - give him the benefit of the doubt up front and so not that this one is a particularly common stumbling block I
51:44 51:44 - don’t think but uh things like for example uh the problem of evil or suffering in the world uh so perhaps
51:51 51:51 - succinctly put why if we have an all powerful God uh is there so much suffering in the world you know if he
51:57 51:57 - says he loves us then then why is there suffering um that question certainly causes folks to stumble um but we need
52:04 52:04 - to have that Faith up front that there are reasons for these things um and that’s true here as well that’s kind of
52:11 52:11 - why I was trying to tie this in is why didn’t God do this why didn’t he give them the truth earlier you know couldn’t
52:16 52:16 - they have been more spiritually mature if God had revealed more truth to them earlier I don’t know if youve ever heard
52:22 52:22 - an argument like that it it’s really it’s like not the right argument to be made making is what I’m trying to say um
52:29 52:29 - because it’s not as if for all the truth that we have been given like Audie and I have just spent some time talking about
52:36 52:36 - it’s not as if even given all that truth everyone today makes such perfect use of it right and that’s why this this game
52:43 52:43 - that people play with this hypotheticals of well wouldn’t it have been better if God did this or God did that as if we
52:49 52:49 - think we know better than God well actually no it wouldn’t have been better because even despite all that truth that
52:55 52:55 - we’ve been given in our day people don’t make it use of it so you can’t assume things like that that like
53:01 53:01 - if you know you have 10 people at this time and place and God gives them this much truth and 10 people in this time
53:07 53:07 - and place and God gives them this much truth and those people had an advantage because they got more truth that is such
53:13 53:13 - a human way of looking at this that we just need to give God the benefit of the doubt up
53:18 53:18 - front so um we will have more to say in just a moment on these reasons that we put forward you know these possible
53:26 53:26 - explan in this particular case but this slide is introducing these two possible
53:31 53:31 - explanations the purpose of this was more just to get us in that right mindset of thinking well not in
53:37 53:37 - accusatory fashion of why didn’t God do this but like what are these explanations for why God’s plan is
53:42 53:42 - perfect that is sort of the mindset that we need to have when we talk about this a you have any uh follow on thoughts to
53:49 53:49 - any of that yeah I I completely like endorse everything you just said the right attitude to have when asking that
53:58 53:58 - question is to understand the way God thinks not to accuse him of some kind of error in the way he does
54:06 54:06 - things um just to okay let’s I think I think I can I can go that way um when we when we
54:17 54:17 - think about the way that God structures things and we say well he wants everyone to be saved and he wants this and that
54:26 54:26 - so it makes no sense that he does this and that um the Lord Jesus said that if the Miracles he did in his day
54:38 54:38 - while he was on Earth in the flesh in the cities of Israel were done in Sodom and
54:45 54:45 - gomorah they would have repented and he said too that those the the citizens of that City will stand in
54:55 54:55 - judgment with this these citizens of the cities in which he was talking about capernum and the and the others and they
55:02 55:02 - would condemn them well it’s like if God wanted them to
55:08 55:08 - repent why didn’t he have those Miracles done but you
55:16 55:16 - see we have to understand that God is not like us when we human beings want something it doesn’t matter what anybody
55:23 55:23 - else wants that’s how we think think about things whereas the Lord wants people to repent but he doesn’t want
55:31 55:31 - them to do it under duress he wants them to repent of their own free choice so for that reason if anything is
55:40 55:40 - going to force you to do it without doing it willingly is not going to let you
55:47 55:47 - experience that thing that’s a simple as that gets so likewise there’s a lot of truth that
55:57 55:57 - the Lord is more than happy to give the Lord Jesus expressed that to to his disciples where he said I have so much
56:03 56:03 - to tell you but you’re not ready to hear it and we see we see that unfolded we saw we saw it unfold in in Acts of the
56:15 56:15 - Apostles consider for example how many times you if you read the book of John it’s it’s incredible it’s almost as if
56:21 56:21 - John was speaking to Gentiles and telling them look you really do belong in the Faith as well he kept talking
56:29 56:29 - about how Jesus said for example in chapter 10 that he had other sheep that were not of this fold that was to say
56:40 56:40 - Gentiles were also his even though they were not born Israelites this is what Jesus said while
56:48 56:48 - he was on Earth and when you go through the gospels he said these things multiple times and yet when it came to
56:55 56:55 - acts of the Apostles the chief Apostle so to speak the one who was loudest and always around the Lord Jesus and zealous
57:03 57:03 - for all things concerning the Lord Jesus right up to the point that he thought well if it’s going to be War I’ll kill
57:09 57:09 - and get killed he was ready for that and yet when the spirit himself sent him to Cornelius to teach them the gospel he
57:20 57:20 - had to be persuaded that it was the right thing for him to do he was with Jesus we resume when a centurion asked
57:28 57:28 - for Jesus to heal his slave and Jesus was going to the man’s house why did Peter think that there was
57:38 57:38 - something wrong with him doing the same thing and this was not where it ended later on Paul had to remonstrate with
57:44 57:44 - him about his behavior with the Galatians that’s just to tell you how difficult it was for them
57:53 57:53 - to understand certain things that were even being told to them how much more in the era before the spirit was
58:02 58:02 - poured out that is just to tell us how hard it is for us to stomach some things that God wants us to know and like like
58:12 58:12 - Professor Robert said I believe that that’s a very sound argument if the Lord Jesus did not come speaking about the
58:20 58:20 - Trinity would have been a huge huge difficulty for anybody to deal with with when he came demonstrating in every way
58:30 58:30 - that he was truly a member of the Trinity they still did not believe him how much more when he was not
58:38 58:38 - there that’s we’ll get to that just just just forur the record we’ll get to that that’s like two slides next it present
58:46 58:46 - so it’s a very important it’s crucial that is one of the crucial points that we’re going over here um one of the
58:52 58:52 - other examples based on what you’d said um why did Jesus speaking Parables it’s another one right we may have talked
59:00 59:00 - about this before I don’t remember maybe not this series but um if God wants everyone to understand the truth why
59:05 59:05 - didn’t he just tell them the truth um it’s because he gives us the ability to choose right um Choice Free Will is so
59:13 59:13 - fundamental to this but it’s the same thing right why did God why did God why did God when we ask these questions that
59:20 59:20 - was the point here it needs to be it like I said curiosity is not bad it is not an unreasonable thing for us to be
59:28 59:28 - curious as to you know like what are God’s reasons for doing this you know and we can pray about it for sure um but
59:35 59:35 - it needs to just not be accusatory that’s all there is to this curiosity is fine accusing God is not right we need
59:41 59:41 - to have that faith and trust that God knows what he is doing and in fact it’s us who’s too blind to actually see it
59:48 59:48 - and and like I said before sometimes there are certain things that God has not given to us to know now I confess to
59:56 59:56 - being rather cross when people use that particular line of thinking because a lot of things that some people fancy as
01:00:02 01:00:02 - being not for Humanity to know I think are actually things that are the Bible speaks of like let’s say prophecy and uh
01:00:11 01:00:11 - eschatology end times interpretation Bible has all sorts of things to say about that that is not something that
01:00:17 01:00:17 - God has seen fit to Veil from us completely but more what I’m talking about is like what exactly will eternity
01:00:22 01:00:22 - be like I mean we kind of have some descriptions of the new heaven in the new Earth but not nearly as much as we
01:00:28 01:00:28 - would like right um yeah and there’s plenty of other things like that that’s what I’m talking about um but we’re
01:00:34 01:00:34 - allowed to wonder but we don’t get to second gu God because we are so far beneath him in perspective that it’s
01:00:43 01:00:43 - like I mean just to use an analogy um if you’ve ever been around small children who ask
01:00:48 01:00:48 - questions that you know it’s really hard to explain them to the child’s level right so why doesn’t God things explain
01:00:56 01:00:56 - to us well because we are like small children asking him to explain something that you know we haven’t a hope of
01:01:02 01:01:02 - understanding except infinitely more so right if we understand this with children who are at least human and they
01:01:08 01:01:08 - are at least Bound by similar sets of constraints as us well how much more is it not like that for when we come
01:01:16 01:01:16 - whining to God about not understanding something even if he wanted to if he were to tell us as it actually is we
01:01:22 01:01:22 - would not understand um and so it’s all this is just going back to that point that I was making about it’s just about
01:01:29 01:01:29 - the attitude we have when we look into these things um so yeah okay of the two reasons that we just
01:01:41 01:01:41 - went over for why perhaps God chose to Veil the triun nature of his Essence in the Old Testament rather than making it
01:01:48 01:01:48 - clear to them in the same way that he did after the Incarnation well we’re going to be talking about idolatry as a
01:01:54 01:01:54 - possible explanation for God veiling of his nature and so um this is not some mere hypothetical here um Israel
01:02:03 01:02:03 - actually really did struggle with idolatry like it’s not like we’re just making things up here um it was a major
01:02:10 01:02:10 - problem in ancient times and it was historically one of Israel’s most serious stumbling blocks and this is
01:02:17 01:02:17 - pretty commonly uced as like the reason um you know reason singular for why U God chose to Veil the trinity in Old
01:02:27 01:02:27 - Testament times um and so it is true um and and we’re not going to argue against it it is true that the threat of
01:02:34 01:02:34 - idolatry to the faith and practice of Old Testament Believers was a very real one so Dr Le will give some examples
01:02:40 01:02:40 - here we only need to consider that the first two of The Ten Commandments deal with the subject right so I am you shall
01:02:47 01:02:47 - have no other gods before me and you shall not make for yourself an idol or any likeness right first two
01:02:53 01:02:53 - Commandments definitely idolatry focused and that if you consider um the passage in numbers 25 talking about um balam’s
01:03:02 01:03:02 - Council of idolatrous Seduction you know this was very damaging to Israel so we’re not going to go read the whole
01:03:08 01:03:08 - chapter although of course this is you know cross references on point because that’s exactly why Dr lugino quotes it
01:03:16 01:03:16 - um but the point is that idolatry was far from some toothless threat to uh the the survival of the faith of the
01:03:24 01:03:24 - Israelites um it was a very real and practical threat it wasn’t just some uh abstract hypothetical and so the
01:03:34 01:03:34 - argument as it goes suggests that there was a need to emphasize the Oneness of the god sorry of God in the face of this
01:03:42 01:03:42 - very real polytheistic threat thus obviating any possible twisting of a proper understanding of the Trinity and
01:03:49 01:03:49 - so the way that we’re going to go with this is basically that this explanation does possess of value it is not false
01:03:58 01:03:58 - that’s not what we’re saying is that it isn’t the only thing that we should focus on when we talk about this and
01:04:03 01:04:03 - we’ll get to that um in the next thing we talk about talking about how the fact that Jesus hadn’t come yet is also a
01:04:09 01:04:09 - very real explanation for why God had chose not to unveil all of the truth of the Trinity um but this idea of idolatry
01:04:18 01:04:18 - and emphasizing the Oneness of the god in the face of the polytheistic Pagan pantheons it is true and it is is you
01:04:26 01:04:26 - know a very a very reasonable reason why God would not um uh try to uh you know explain the Triune nature that he has to
01:04:37 01:04:37 - the Israelites in the times when the Israelites were surrounded on all sides by Pagan pantheons and were likely to
01:04:44 01:04:44 - twist it and so we should note here this is in a footnote on N this although I moved it directly into the slide here
01:04:50 01:04:50 - that Pagan pantheons not to mention Pagan religions proper they are different from and the true worship of
01:04:56 01:04:56 - him in every way that is of course God is not a Pantheon of course the Trinity is different from pantheons but the
01:05:04 01:05:04 - problem is is that people could twist it um and so this would have been obvious to True Believers um revelation of the
01:05:11 01:05:11 - Trinity notwithstanding um so uh two points here and we we’ve already kind of been over
01:05:17 01:05:17 - this when we were talking about God’s nature um Pagan pantheons are never even close to being one in purpose as the
01:05:24 01:05:24 - Trinity is um that is what being shared Essence means um they have this Unity of Will and purpose that completely boggles
01:05:31 01:05:31 - our minds we don’t have any human analogy as we pointed out before um no nor are there individual members so
01:05:38 01:05:38 - integral to the existence of the whole as in the Trinity is not the Trinity without all three members of the Trinity
01:05:44 01:05:44 - whereas you could have a Pantheon of gods and well if you take away one of the Gods it’s still a Pantheon of gods
01:05:50 01:05:50 - right um whereas if you take away one of the members of the Trinity it’s no longer the Trinity so these are ways in
01:05:55 01:05:55 - which the Trinity is not a Pantheon um but it is worth pointing out that throughout much of the existence of
01:06:03 01:06:03 - church history actually you know understanding the Trinity and understanding exactly what it means for
01:06:09 01:06:09 - three person’s one Essence and it was hard even after Jesus Christ came right people still got muddled up on this
01:06:16 01:06:16 - point there were still people who tried to treat the Trinity like a Pantheon um and that was after Jesus Christ had come
01:06:22 01:06:22 - we had more Revelation at that point people still had problems with it and so how much more so would this have been
01:06:29 01:06:29 - the case when Israel was surrounded on all sides by these Pagan religions who had these pantheons and so even if you
01:06:37 01:06:37 - know no matter how God explained this to the people there would have been people who would have properly understood those
01:06:43 01:06:43 - with faith would have taken God’s words and believed and trusted in him but there would have been people who would
01:06:50 01:06:50 - have you know basically taken the words of God and then somehow themselves that God uh uh the judeo Christian God was
01:07:01 01:07:01 - somehow a Pantheon um because that was what their frame of reference was um so again we are not suggesting that this
01:07:09 01:07:09 - alone is the reason why God failed the Trinity but it is a reason um and in fact we’re going to argue that the
01:07:15 01:07:15 - second one that we’re going to go over is probably the more important reason um but it is perfectly valid for us to
01:07:21 01:07:21 - observe this and hypothesize because I don’t think we actually have anything in the Bible that says this explicitly it’s
01:07:27 01:07:27 - sort of an inference but hypothesize that this is a good reason for God to have chosen to reveal truth in the times
01:07:34 01:07:34 - and places that he did a you have any any further points you’re speaking you’re
01:07:40 01:07:40 - muted okay sorry I I forgot that I was muted I was saying that um first I already I already went here before
01:07:50 01:07:50 - before it was time to go here and yeah the other thing too is that I I I like how Professor Robert essentially says
01:07:59 01:07:59 - it’s not that idolatry was not something to worry about but that um it’s not it does not fully answer
01:08:10 01:08:10 - why uh God did not give this information earlier as we have said and as you have said just now even if even with the
01:08:21 01:08:21 - coming of the Lord Jesus idolatry is still an issue even with the Jews themselves it’s not like it’s way out
01:08:28 01:08:28 - there so we have all of those um all of those things uh but it it is it is part of the answer it’s part of the answer
01:08:38 01:08:38 - because it essentially says look people are already struggling with understanding God as
01:08:44 01:08:44 - one one not entity in this case but you know as one understanding that God is one almost almost everything in the Old
01:08:53 01:08:53 - Testament was driving in toward know that I am not like the gods of your of your people of of your neighbors sorry
01:09:02 01:09:02 - all the Gentile Nations surrounding Israel God kept telling I’m not like that I am
01:09:11 01:09:11 - one that was a very big deal but there would have been some confusion too if um he is one and then they see that he is
01:09:21 01:09:21 - three so there is there is that too but at the same time like we said it was it’s more than that it’s part of the
01:09:29 01:09:29 - answer but it’s not the whole answer that that’s what uh Professor Robert is pointing out and I I completely agree
01:09:37 01:09:37 - with that I mean I should say too that it’s not like when Jesus came and died for our sins and we had this revelation
01:09:44 01:09:44 - of the Trinity when when God actually did give believers an understanding of the Trinity you know uh one Essence
01:09:51 01:09:51 - three persons well Rome had a Pantheon too albeit they mostly copied the Greeks but like they were still a a society in
01:10:01 01:10:01 - a culture whose religion was fundamentally a Pantheon it wasn’t like it was different then but part of the
01:10:09 01:10:09 - difference too is that obviously the focus um you know you brought up Paul and uh Peter being led to to go to
01:10:15 01:10:15 - Cornelius and salvation was for the Gentiles too um is that there wasn’t quite the same degree of maintaining the
01:10:24 01:10:24 - separation of Israel as a nation right I almost think this is a fundamental point to this is that idolatry of Israel was
01:10:32 01:10:32 - seen as a national problem right Israel was a pure theocracy in a way that government systems um before and since
01:10:40 01:10:40 - really haven’t been right Rome was not a theocracy not really um United States is certainly not um you know separation of
01:10:46 01:10:46 - church and state uh people view it as rather important actually um but for Israel their idolatry had National
01:10:56 01:10:56 - consequences um their their actions their in fact their relationship with God drove the policy of their Nation we
01:11:03 01:11:03 - could say um the Kings they got good Kings and bad kings depended upon the righteousness of the people um so I
01:11:11 01:11:11 - think pretty fundamental to this idolatry explanation too is not so much that there were nations with idolatry
01:11:19 01:11:19 - around them as that the distinction between Israel and those Nations had to be maintained um a do you know there’s
01:11:26 01:11:26 - this passage that that talks about marrying foreign wives um it’s in like the Minor Prophets somewhere is it um um
01:11:34 01:11:34 - yeah let let mea maybe or um it would be it’s actually in the in the law um well no I’m talking about specifically where
01:11:45 01:11:45 - um a number of the Jews had married foreign wives and they were told to okay that’s an Ezra Ezra okay yeah it’s an
01:11:54 01:11:54 - Ezra um but I mean I was just trying to say that this distinction of keeping the people of Israel
01:12:01 01:12:01 - separate that’s a a fundamental part of of this um this is not separate from that and that is why the whole idolatry
01:12:09 01:12:09 - thing like sorry the paganism thing well Rome was still Pagan in fact so were the Greeks you know because you know it
01:12:16 01:12:16 - spread to Greece and Rome both of those were still Pagan societies as in they had a Pantheon however it was no longer
01:12:24 01:12:24 - about keep Israel separate from them it was about the spread of the Gospel it’s a different time a different place but
01:12:30 01:12:30 - for the Israel’s existence that’s what we’re talking about here not the time when the gospel is spreading throughout
01:12:36 01:12:36 - the Mediterranean but for the period of Israel’s existence as a Theocratic State maintaining that separation was crucial
01:12:45 01:12:45 - and that’s why this was kind of the big deal then uh maybe that helps shed a bit more light on why then versus after the
01:12:53 01:12:53 - cross you know like why why were those different respect to pantheons um yeah okay yeah and so I think that’s
01:13:01 01:13:01 - all there is like we said this is part of the answer but it is not the answer in and of itself um just one thing to
01:13:07 01:13:07 - close with here is I think we have this uh this temptation as humans to want to kind of explain it all feel like we’ve
01:13:14 01:13:14 - kind of got all the the pieces on the board arranged in the proper format and see like I understand now um uh I have
01:13:21 01:13:21 - this problem I’m just like speaking for myself n equals 1 personally I want to understand and see how all the
01:13:27 01:13:27 - pieces fit together and kind of be able to have this full accounting of things put everything in nice neat boxes and be
01:13:35 01:13:35 - able to give explanations um just gonna kind of repeat what I said before that sometimes
01:13:40 01:13:40 - we aren’t given to know um and understanding when we are and when we are not is actually pretty important
01:13:47 01:13:47 - when we kind of dive into trying to answer theological questions is this something that God has given for mankind
01:13:53 01:13:53 - to know can I work hard and come to an answer or am I just deluding myself if I think I have an answer um why I’m
01:14:01 01:14:01 - bringing that up here is because I think it might be tempting for some people to stop here to say aha look I found the
01:14:07 01:14:07 - answer this is the answer kind of open shut I’m not going to talk about this anymore right because they found
01:14:13 01:14:13 - something that seems convincing and uh well I can explain everything in the world and we’re just going to leave it
01:14:18 01:14:18 - there um God did this because this right but we need to make sure that when we do try to explain things we don’t we don’t
01:14:27 01:14:27 - necessarily always take the easy path I maybe I’m being really vague here but just like you can’t just leave it here
01:14:33 01:14:33 - um and I think this feeds into that human arrogance of feeling like we can actually understand God’s plan I we kind
01:14:39 01:14:39 - of can God gives us information in order to understand how he’s working in the world but we’re not going to get it all
01:14:46 01:14:46 - figured out and so to the extent that you ever feel like you’ve got it all figured out maybe take a step back and
01:14:52 01:14:52 - understand that God’s just a lot bigger than we are um and so uh I I don’t think most folks
01:14:58 01:14:58 - have a problem with this I think sometimes people who really want to try to find explanations for everything will
01:15:03 01:15:03 - tend to uh perhaps get too wetted to single reasons right they put all their eggs in one basket so to speak um and
01:15:12 01:15:12 - because we’re so finite sometimes we don’t have that that overarching perspective that God does so maybe he’s
01:15:18 01:15:18 - doing it for this reason and then 500 other reasons besides that we can’t even see right that’s kind of what I’m trying
01:15:25 01:15:25 - to say here um yeah to the extent that we think we we know why we’re probably only seeing part of the iceberg is what
01:15:33 01:15:33 - I’m trying to say um true true all right well with that uh we will soon enough turn into explaining perhaps
01:15:42 01:15:42 - the the bigger part of the reason for God’s veiling and that is the revelation of Jesus Christ and how much how
01:15:50 01:15:50 - necessary that is for properly explaining the trinity so next we’re going to be talking here
01:15:59 01:15:59 - about sort of the second part of the reasoning for Why God did not reveal his Triune nature to Old Testament Believers
01:16:07 01:16:07 - and so idolatry being the first part that we went over here and the idea that God wanted to emphasize his Oneness and
01:16:16 01:16:16 - his unity in the face of all of the Pagan pantheons around the nation state of Israel and how they had to stay
01:16:25 01:16:25 - separate that was critically important for the survival of uh the Jewish culture and um just belief in God in
01:16:33 01:16:33 - general um if they didn’t stay separate they could be completely assimilated by some of these other Pagan cultures and
01:16:41 01:16:41 - that would be well the end of those who follow the one true God and so God could have kept some of the description of his
01:16:49 01:16:49 - Triune nature veiled so that it would preserve the idea of theism in the eyes of the people of Israel um so that is
01:16:59 01:16:59 - part one now part two what we’re going to be talking about now is perhaps even a little bit simpler conceptually than
01:17:05 01:17:05 - that in that God did not reveal uh the full roles in the Trinity and how they relate until after Jesus Christ had come
01:17:15 01:17:15 - down and died for our sins in the world after the Incarnation and before we could see
01:17:21 01:17:21 - Jesus Christ you know the idea of three person of God um as we have already sort of argued and we’ll continue to argue it
01:17:29 01:17:29 - was there in the Old Testament but uh it was not uh so easy for Old Testament Believers to discern between the members
01:17:39 01:17:39 - so God is God there is one true God that is something that they would have understood but that that God exists in
01:17:45 01:17:45 - these three persons would not have been as obvious and so the argument more or less
01:17:52 01:17:52 - for this idea of God did not reveal all of the truth of the Trinity until Jesus Christ had come goes something like this
01:18:02 01:18:02 - so before we see with our own eyes Christ come in the flesh his humility his suffering his sacrifice for us can
01:18:09 01:18:09 - we really truly appreciate in full the Trinity and what God has chosen for us to do in Christ’s Incarnation and Death
01:18:16 01:18:16 - on the cross so without actually seeing it or having the words uh divinely inspired through the words of of the
01:18:25 01:18:25 - writers of the New Testament such that we hear about it through their witness could we really properly
01:18:32 01:18:32 - appreciate what the Trinity is and what God has chosen to do for us in sending his son to die for us so uh if you take
01:18:40 01:18:40 - a step back and you think about well how could God have done this in a way other than which he did you know like let’s
01:18:46 01:18:46 - say God had told old test Believers through the mouths of some of the Major Prophets so perhaps Isaiah or Jeremiah
01:18:54 01:18:54 - or one of the other Major Prophets in Old Testament times well here’s how you know humanity is going to be saved and
01:19:02 01:19:02 - he spells it all out perhaps kind of explicitly you know uh I’m going to send a person who is my son I mean we have
01:19:09 01:19:09 - the Virgin birth is prophecied in Isaiah you know that is there although you know obviously not quite as connected as as
01:19:15 01:19:15 - perhaps spelling it all out in expository detail but if God told them well I exist in three persons and I’m
01:19:23 01:19:23 - going to send you know the son into the world to take your sins upon the cross to die for you and you
01:19:30 01:19:30 - know the spirit is going to make that possible and I will accept the sacrifice as the atonement for human sin well
01:19:38 01:19:38 - without having you know the the Life of Christ before them and and knowing him seeing him in the flesh understanding
01:19:46 01:19:46 - what suffering he went through would they have been able to understand it all um and L we think well you know God
01:19:54 01:19:54 - could just make it I don’t know like a parent to them or whatever well he certainly could we we know that we
01:20:01 01:20:01 - only understand spiritual truth through the holy spirit that indwells us that sort of opens our eyes to the spiritual
01:20:08 01:20:08 - aspect of things in this world but nonetheless the point remains that without actually having the witness of
01:20:15 01:20:15 - Jesus Christ in the life he lived and the death he died to redeem us a lot of the plan for the Trinity as in the roles
01:20:23 01:20:23 - that they have adopted for the Redemption of humankind just kind of doesn’t make a lot of sense I mean like
01:20:29 01:20:29 - God could try to explain it but in the absence of actually kind of seeing Christ be and born and live and and die
01:20:36 01:20:36 - in our place human beings would have a really hard time sort of understanding it it’d be kind of abstract and so this
01:20:45 01:20:45 - is sort of the simple argument for Why God would choose to only progressively reveal his his full Triune nature only
01:20:53 01:20:53 - after the cross only after Christ had had come and lived and died and was resurrected was because only then kind
01:21:00 01:21:00 - of could we properly appreciate what the Trinity what the members of the Trinity were doing what God’s plan was to save
01:21:07 01:21:07 - us and how the members of the Trinity are involved in that plan because prior to that I mean it’s not like the three
01:21:14 01:21:14 - members of the Trinity didn’t act in the Old Testament or or didn’t share responsibilities in a division of labor
01:21:21 01:21:21 - in some way but God’s full plan for the Redemption of humanity obviously came about during the life of Jesus Christ
01:21:29 01:21:29 - under kenosis under the life he lived and the death he died to save us and so you just can’t kind of properly explain
01:21:37 01:21:37 - the roles of God without talking about the Incarnation it’s really that simple um and so Dr Lugo phrases it like this
01:21:45 01:21:45 - without the accomplished reality of the Incarnation of Jesus how could we ever but dimly conceive the glory of it so
01:21:52 01:21:52 - without seeing it so not only understand but how could we appreciate it without having it before us and without the
01:22:00 01:22:00 - accomplished fact of his Incarnation how could we possibly understand and appreciate the Triune nature of God for
01:22:06 01:22:06 - it’s only through Christ after he has come into the world in person that we begin to see God with the clarity of
01:22:14 01:22:14 - vision it has now been given to us to possess and so the verse references that Dr lul cites here uh John 1 verse 18
01:22:23 01:22:23 - says no one has seen God at any time the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the father he has explained him so
01:22:32 01:22:32 - probably translate that this is the 1995 version of the nas we probably translate that as you know the I have to see this
01:22:39 01:22:39 - word in Greek is probably monogenes that’s the Greek word here probably the one and only God who is in the bosom of
01:22:46 01:22:46 - the father but regardless the point is that we only understand the father we we have him explained to us by Jesus Christ
01:22:55 01:22:55 - um and so when Jesus comes to Bear witness about the father you’ll hear that phrasing is all throughout the
01:23:01 01:23:01 - Gospel of John uh well Jesus came as a messenger as the messenger capital T definite article of God and you know um
01:23:12 01:23:12 - you another verse I think I’ve brought this one up before I really like the first chapter of the book of Hebrews
01:23:18 01:23:18 - especially how we talk about how God speaks through his son right in the past God spoke to our ancestors through the
01:23:25 01:23:25 - prophets at many times and in various ways but in these last days he has spoken to us by his son whom he
01:23:32 01:23:32 - appointed he of all things through whom he made the universe so God gave Jesus Christ to us as a message um so uh you
01:23:41 01:23:41 - know aside from Jesus saving us in his actions he was also God’s testimony to us about who he is and what he is doing
01:23:50 01:23:50 - for us and so this is why we say that we don’t oops well don’t need that um we don’t
01:23:59 01:23:59 - need sorry we do not properly understand God independent from what Jesus Christ did for us we cannot in fact and so that
01:24:07 01:24:07 - was John chapter 1 vers 18 just getting this idea that Jesus Christ in his witness to us um as God speaking to us
01:24:15 01:24:15 - how Hebrews chapter 1 says well that was sort of necessary for us to understand God and so that is why the progressive
01:24:24 01:24:24 - Revelation in terms of the Triune nature of God would happen after this point and then likewise John 14 verse 9 and uh
01:24:35 01:24:35 - Jesus here is saying that anyone who has seen him has seen the father um and so if you take a step back and you think
01:24:43 01:24:43 - about exactly what that means we we see the father you know and that is not just visibly with our eyes you have to
01:24:50 01:24:50 - understand the metaphorical aspect of seeing here um so that’s pretty common in languages at least it certainly is in
01:24:57 01:24:57 - Greek where you you kind of we even have this turn of phrase in English either you’d say that you know for example he
01:25:04 01:25:04 - came to see that uh the thing was not going to happen or something like that um he he didn’t like see something with
01:25:11 01:25:11 - his eyes he kind of comprehended it with his mind and so too here in John chapter 14 ver9 when Jesus says to Philip he who
01:25:20 01:25:20 - has seen me has seen the father so how can you say show us the father Jesus is saying that he is actually as we just
01:25:28 01:25:28 - said a witness of the Father the person through whom you know his disciples the the people who believed in him and
01:25:36 01:25:36 - followed him could actually understand the father because he was you know I go back to Hebrews chapter 1 he was the
01:25:44 01:25:44 - radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being um that is what Jesus Christ was
01:25:51 01:25:51 - and that is how we see the father through him so to pull us all back to the general idea here that’s kind of
01:25:57 01:25:57 - what we’re doing in this slide introducing it is that well we could not properly understand the Triune nature of
01:26:03 01:26:03 - God independent from this witness of Jesus Christ so as we kind of go on to talk about this a little bit more here
01:26:11 01:26:11 - um so when the temple veil that symbolically separated us from the presence of God was Split in Two by
01:26:20 01:26:20 - Christ sacrifice on our behalf that is you know Matthew chap 27 : 51 says that the veil of the temple was torn into two
01:26:28 01:26:28 - from top to bottom and the Earth Shook and the Rocks were split when Christ was on the cross well so the veil that in
01:26:34 01:26:34 - the Old Testament partially obscured the person of Christ from our view has been lifted by his actual Advent in the flesh
01:26:42 01:26:42 - to die on our behalf and and save us from our sins paying for our sins on our behalf on the cross so now through our
01:26:51 01:26:51 - faith in Jesus Christ we see God the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit more clearly than we ever could before this
01:26:58 01:26:58 - happened um before the Advent of Christ and his Incarnation and his life and his suffering and his death for us we
01:27:06 01:27:06 - couldn’t properly wrap our heads around exactly what this meant and so the ripping of the veil that is discussed
01:27:15 01:27:15 - here uh in terms of the temple uh This is highly symbolic um and it is a powerful metaphor for us to understand
01:27:24 01:27:24 - again going back to that idea of seeing we just talked about in John 14:9 here um seeing the father uh not so much as
01:27:31 01:27:31 - in like with our eyes but with our minds well so too that Veil within our minds this veil of understanding that our you
01:27:41 01:27:41 - know our ears were plugged and our eyes were darkened if you will things like that we have been given to see and hear
01:27:47 01:27:47 - and understand these truths about God now because that veil was torn upon what Christ did for us um because through his
01:27:57 01:27:57 - sacrifice on our behalf we are no longer separated from God in this way so it wasn’t just that reconciliation to God
01:28:05 01:28:05 - we have uh Jesus paying for our sins so us being covered in the blood of Christ can now enter the presence of the father
01:28:12 01:28:12 - in the third heaven but it’s also this separation in terms of understanding of being able to comprehend who God is and
01:28:20 01:28:20 - what he’s doing to work out our Redemption so a couple more vers verses here 2 Corinthians 4:6 says for God who
01:28:29 01:28:29 - said let light shine forth from the darkness is he who has shown forth his light into our hearts to illuminate our
01:28:36 01:28:36 - knowledge of God’s glory in the person of Jesus Christ so from this verse we see that the knowledge of God’s glory
01:28:45 01:28:45 - that we have comes through our understanding of the person of Jesus Christ um that is how light is shown
01:28:52 01:28:52 - into our hearts so to speak um so you know illumination actually light in the darkness another common metaphor for
01:28:59 01:28:59 - knowledge or understanding um you know because we don’t see or comprehend things in the darkness we we cannot uh
01:29:08 01:29:08 - make sense of them well light as a metaphor for knowledge here it’s the same thing our hearts are illuminated
01:29:15 01:29:15 - our understanding of God is illuminated um or elucidated even uh uh like Lucid lucid comes from the Latin word looks
01:29:25 01:29:25 - which is light um so we have our understanding illuminated by the person of Jesus Christ and another verse here
01:29:35 01:29:35 - from 2 Corinthians this time from chapter 3 2 Corinthians chapter 3:14 for until this very day the same
01:29:43 01:29:43 - Veil remains upon their unbelieving hearts when the Old Testament is read and it is not removed when they hear
01:29:49 01:29:49 - these scriptures because it is only done away with in Christ so we may go pull up this passage here um 2 Corinthians
01:29:57 01:29:57 - chapter 3 is talking about the veiled glory of God um and so what do we say that was verse 14 yeah um so this is
01:30:06 01:30:06 - talking about uh us reflecting the glory of God you know and uh the glory that was coming off of Moses’s face when he
01:30:16 01:30:16 - uh you know like had come down the mountain um so Moses would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites
01:30:23 01:30:23 - from seeing the end of what was passing away his face you know glowing with the glory of God as he came down the
01:30:30 01:30:30 - mountain um but the veiled minds of the Believers here when the old Covenant is read it has not been removed because
01:30:39 01:30:39 - only in Christ is it taken away that is and that’s the key Point here we only understand God our minds are only uh
01:30:49 01:30:49 - unveiled so to speak so that we may see clearly once we understand the person of Jesus Christ um so verse 16 so 2
01:30:58 01:30:58 - Corinthians chapter 3: 16 says whenever anyone turns to the Lord the veil is taken away right they have that light uh
01:31:06 01:31:06 - the veil is removed um they can actually see properly they can see God for who he is
01:31:12 01:31:12 - and what he is doing for us so this is you know on topic reference here 2 Corinthians chapter 3 the latter part of
01:31:21 01:31:21 - that chapter gets at this idea of Glory and us not being able to properly see and understand it because people have
01:31:28 01:31:28 - their hearts veiled until they understand the person of Jesus Christ and so to kind of pull it all together
01:31:35 01:31:35 - here we would say that we see the sun more clearly after he comes into the world so we could compare John chapter 1
01:31:44 01:31:44 - verse4 this is talking about you know the word uh Jesus as the per personified logos becoming flesh and dwelling among
01:31:51 01:31:51 - us and we saw his glory Glory as of the only begotten of the father full of grace and truth um so that’s John 1
01:31:59 01:31:59 - ver14 we see the son more clearly after he comes into the world the son can only reveal the father more clearly after he
01:32:08 01:32:08 - comes into the world here’s that verse that we quoted before John 1:18 talks about how uh Jesus explains the father
01:32:16 01:32:16 - um he has this witness this testimony that he brings about the father and the spirit cannot be sent to any dwell
01:32:24 01:32:24 - Believers until after the son has been glorified and so uh this John 7:39 says um but this he he being Jesus spoke of
01:32:35 01:32:35 - the Spirit uh whom those who believed in him were to receive for the spirit was not yet given because Jesus was not yet
01:32:42 01:32:42 - glorified um so we know that Jesus sent the spirit the comforter uh you know as he was going back to Heaven as he was
01:32:50 01:32:50 - ascending so that the apostles would have that indwelling Holy Spirit to help them in their Ministries you know we
01:32:57 01:32:57 - this has been true in the church age ever since um Believers are indwell by the Holy Spirit God living within us um
01:33:04 01:33:04 - but that couldn’t happen here this is what uh well not couldn’t but you know this verse says that the spirit was not
01:33:10 01:33:10 - yet given because Jesus was not yet glorified so if the spirit is not given we don’t understand the empowerment of
01:33:19 01:33:19 - his ministry we don’t understand the father because the father is revealed through the son and we don’t understand
01:33:24 01:33:24 - the son before he actually comes into the world you know as the Incarnate Son of God uh the Divine logos living among
01:33:32 01:33:32 - us that’s all three members of the Trinity that you can kind of see we do not properly understand them or the role
01:33:39 01:33:39 - they play until the events of the Incarnation are completed and so for that reason we would say that the
01:33:46 01:33:46 - Trinity can only be clearly explained and understood after the first Advent of Christ a task undertaken by the New
01:33:54 01:33:54 - Testament um so uh you know everything else in the Epistles um and the other writings that we have in the New
01:34:01 01:34:01 - Testament talking about you know uh God’s truth in a more specific revealed way that idea of progressive revelation
01:34:11 01:34:11 - well all this happens only after the first Advent of Jesus Christ so to put that a little bit differently there’s a
01:34:16 01:34:16 - reason why the New Testament was written after the Life of Christ um it’s different uh categorically different
01:34:23 01:34:23 - from the old Old Testament because we have this specific revealed Truth uh we see without the veil in a way that the
01:34:31 01:34:31 - Old Testament Believers were not given to and so we can contrast that a bit with the Old Testament before the first
01:34:40 01:34:40 - Advent where the members of the Trinity were understandably not as clearly distinguished and so that kind of gets
01:34:45 01:34:45 - back this idea of foreshortening we talked about before um someone standing in front of a range of mountains headon
01:34:53 01:34:53 - might not be able to uh clearly distinguish that there are three of them they see the one in front of them and
01:34:59 01:34:59 - and the ones behind that may be sort of blocked in their view by the first one whereas once they get some perspective
01:35:06 01:35:06 - and step to the side they could see that they’re actually distinct that is that topic that we talked about here um
01:35:13 01:35:13 - prophetic for shortening so um I think that is the main overview of why we would say that we do not proper
01:35:24 01:35:24 - understand the Trinity roles we could not properly understand the Trinity roles until the first Advent of
01:35:33 01:35:33 - Christ so that’s where we’re going to wrap this lesson here uh we have been talking about the Trinity’s visibility
01:35:41 01:35:41 - in the Old Testament and uh we’re going to continue talking about this for the next couple lessons um but what we have
01:35:49 01:35:49 - gone over in this one here is just talking about how with the Ben benefit of New Testament Revelation um so
01:35:56 01:35:56 - further Revelation by God in Greater specificity we can see some of these things in the Old Testament that the
01:36:04 01:36:04 - Believers of that time might have sort of questioned they had this this splinter in their mind if you will about
01:36:10 01:36:10 - well what exactly does that mean why is Elohim plural why does God say that he made us in you know our image not you
01:36:18 01:36:18 - know my image singular why is it first person plural um and things like that that um they might have had these these
01:36:26 01:36:26 - questions we talked about this passage here in Matthew chapter 22 this is when um Jesus is saying my lord said to the
01:36:35 01:36:35 - Lord said to my Lord and and this very obviously Messianic Psalm here quoting Psalm
01:36:41 01:36:41 - 110 um we talked about prophetic foreshortening so the idea that uh in the Old Testament they they could have
01:36:49 01:36:49 - seen um sort of analogist to a range of mountains but they would only see one they wouldn’t see them split out as
01:36:57 01:36:57 - separate because they didn’t yet have the perspective to properly appreciate that so this idea of foreshortening in
01:37:03 01:37:03 - art sort of maps pretty well onto prophecy we’ve we’ve argued this isn’t the only place as well that this happens
01:37:09 01:37:09 - this also happens with the two advents of Christ the first Advent and the second Advent um some of the prophecy in
01:37:16 01:37:16 - uh you know the major and the Minor Prophets in the Old Testament uh the two advents commonly get conflated like
01:37:22 01:37:22 - they’re not obviously distinguishable from each other in the prophecy but now that Christ Has Come For the first time
01:37:27 01:37:27 - we can kind of see better um but all of that sort of leading up to the question that we closed this lesson with of well
01:37:34 01:37:34 - why did God choose to Veil The Triune nature he possesses in Old Testament times like why wouldn’t he just tell
01:37:41 01:37:41 - them then uh so we have we’ve talked throughout about this idea of progressive revelation um we we gave two
01:37:47 01:37:47 - big reasons here number one sort of the more minor reason if you will was that uh Israel had to stay separate from all
01:37:54 01:37:54 - of its pagan neighbors who had these pantheons and emphasizing God’s Oneness monotheism was
01:38:03 01:38:03 - this defining trait of uh the the people of Israel the Jewish people as opposed to their their neighbors uh well this
01:38:11 01:38:11 - was one way to preserve that barrier of Separation um and we did mention how well it’s not as if when Jesus Christ
01:38:18 01:38:18 - really did come that like Rome had a pagan Pantheon too for example but at this point and that leads us sort of
01:38:25 01:38:25 - into the the second thing here which we said was almost the more important thing once Jesus Christ came God could kind of
01:38:31 01:38:31 - actually properly explain the roles of the Trinity so Jesus coming into the world helps us understand the son he
01:38:38 01:38:38 - Bears witness about the father so through him we see the father we read some verses about that and after his
01:38:44 01:38:44 - glorification the holy spirit is sent to indwell us so only after the first Advent can we kind of truly understand
01:38:52 01:38:52 - uh the roles of God in the plan sorry and the the plan of God and the roles that the members of the Trinity play in
01:38:58 01:38:58 - that plan for our Redemption um so this is what we’ve talked about here sort of just introducing uh the idea of the
01:39:05 01:39:05 - trinity in the Old Testament and uh this kind of a higher conceptual level we’re going to talk more in the coming lessons
01:39:12 01:39:12 - about sort of how the Messiah is prefigured that’s what we’re going to talk about next time and then a couple
01:39:17 01:39:17 - lessons from now we’ll be talking about the appearances of God in the Old Testament so the idea of theophanies
01:39:24 01:39:24 - generally and christophanies specifically and you know kind of where Jesus shows up and how we can see him in
01:39:29 01:39:29 - the Old Testament so those are the topics that we are going to be discussing in our coming lessons here

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