Roles of the Trinity in the Plan of God

Video/audio transcript

00:0000:00 - so the next section of this study in Bible basics part one theology that we are going to be looking at are the roles
00:0700:07 - in the trinity in the plan of God and so by in the plan of God we kind of mean in creation right in this Cosmos um and
00:1500:15 - this also counts sort of throughout all of creation so um you know this isn’t specifically the focus of the study of
00:2200:22 - theology proper there are other studies on ichus part 2B talks about eschatology in particular um but how God interacts
00:3100:31 - with human history helps us see how the members of the Trinity have adopted roles and so roles are sort of uh
00:3800:38 - properly speaking a property of creation um you know that is how the Bible describes them to us whether they exist
00:4400:44 - external to that we’re just not even going to go there because how the Bible discusses it is what the father and the
00:5000:50 - son and the spirit do uh for example in bringing about salvation in working in the world um and so we’re going to be
00:5700:57 - focusing on how the Bible talks about the father and the son and the spirit um as you know the roles in the Trinity so
01:0401:04 - we’re going to introduce just the idea generally of the roles of the trinity in the plan of God uh we’re going to be
01:1001:10 - talking about how uh the roles in the Trinity are a Biblical way to get additional perspective on the persons in
01:1601:16 - the Trinity right as kind of contrasted with some of the illustrations we just went through um the benefit we have here
01:2201:22 - is that the roles are most certainly taught in the Bible now these are analogies too to be clear right actually
01:2801:28 - a lot of heresy in the past has gotten real stuck on the sun part of the Trinity as in you know a a being that
01:3501:35 - was begotten sort of those sorts of problems um and they stumble there because this is an analogy it’s not
01:4301:43 - supposed to be literal um and so you know it’s sort of same caveats that we had before about you know illustrations
01:5001:50 - for illustrations the advantage that these have is that at least these are biblical at least we’re getting these
01:5501:55 - titles these names these analogies from scripture rather than I don’t know just coming up with them um so we’re going to
02:0202:02 - talk about just generally how this is a Biblical way to get more perspective on the members of the Trinity we’re going
02:0902:09 - to be talking about names next so um there’s uh a name Elohim you probably heard that word before um you know
02:1702:17 - plural of majesty Mighty ones you know this is basically the title for God in the Old Testament and then the Greek
02:2402:24 - word is Theos um probably heard that too that’s God you know that means god you know those Theo plurals like Gods is in
02:3302:33 - like the gods of the Greek pantheon but Theos is God proper in the New Testament and then we also have the personal name
02:4002:40 - of God the tetr grammaton which means four letters in Greek um that is sort of the Holy title of God this is who God
02:4802:48 - says he is in Exodus chapter 3 this is I am who I am says the Lord right this is the you’ll see this kind of printed in
02:5602:56 - small caps the tetragramaton um and you’ll see it liter commonly as Yahweh um or Jehovah um depending on who you
03:0403:04 - ask um but that is you know the personal title for God and interestingly that’s singular so we said Elohim is plural you
03:1203:12 - know what I I won’t go too much into this because we’ll get there when we get there in the slide but all of this is
03:1603:16 - talking about those are names for the Trinity specifically and then we’re going to get into the individual names
03:2103:21 - within the Trinity um for the father and the son and the spirit um and those names correspond to the roles within the
03:2803:28 - Trinity so the father is the first person of the Trinity the son is the second person and the Holy Spirit is the
03:3303:33 - third person kind of actually descriptive in the same way we have first person second person and third
03:3803:38 - person in verbs like as in I versus you versus he she or it um and after all of that uh kind of just how we had that
03:4703:47 - cautionary note at the end of our last uh section talking about illustrations we’re going to have similar cautionary
03:5403:54 - note here talking about how analogies are just analogies right um so the fact that we’re talking about a father and a
04:0004:00 - son does not actually mean that the father like sired the son in the way that we do as human you know Bloodlines
04:0704:07 - and whatnot um and very important to emphasize that because the analogies are just analogies um so we’ll beat that
04:1504:15 - horse when we get to the last slide there but this is generally speaking what we’re going to be talking about
04:2004:20 - here going over uh roles of the trinity in the plan of God all right so roles in the trinity in
04:3104:31 - the plan of God kind of the overarching thing we’re going to be talking about here is the use here of this
04:3904:39 - construction of examining the roles kind of as contrasted with non-biblical illustrations to help us understand the
04:4504:45 - nature of the Trinity um you know as it’s described in the Bible like actually described in the Bible versus
04:5104:51 - just things that we came up with so the scriptures have much to say about how God works in human history and specific
04:5604:56 - to our topic what roles the individual members of the Trinity play in that work otherwise known as the plan of God so um
05:0405:04 - I think earlier in this especially in talking about the Trinity we’ve kind of touched on this before about how all
05:1105:11 - three members of the Trinity were involved in creation for example all three members of the Trinity were
05:1705:17 - involved in uh redemption in the Jesus Christ paying for our sins you know we might think of Jesus Christ more
05:2405:24 - specifically but the spirit is the one who enabled it the father is the one who accepted the sacrifice on our behalf
05:2905:29 - things like that all three members of the Trinity are integrally part of the working out of the plan of God in
05:3705:37 - creation so that’s kind of the opening topic you know not a lot to it a you have anything you want to say um so the
05:4505:45 - the concern of um the Christian walk is uh entirely about the plan of God uh that’s
05:5505:55 - really all we are involved in um God is an objective that he’s looking to accomplish and there is a plan a
06:0306:03 - sequence so to speak of steps that will be taken to get there so this is yet another reason that um understanding the
06:1206:12 - Trinity is so important to us because it is an integral part of the business of spiritual growth because you’ll come to
06:2106:21 - see how the plan is unfolding um through the the various roles that the Trinity plays so um yes
06:3406:34 - the the roles of the Trinity are in the plan of God are a critical thing for us to understand and like you said uh this
06:4206:42 - is also where we come to see that analogies and illustrations will break down we won’t see that the father is the
06:4806:48 - father because he somehow generated the son at some point and that the spirit somehow was
06:5606:56 - generated either by the father or by the father and the son it it it it is it is um it is very
07:0607:06 - educative very telling to see that when we look at the Creeds of the past whether the nyine or the apostolic we
07:1407:14 - can see what happens when we miss the forest for the trees and when people focused so much on fighting the fight
07:2507:25 - for the Trinity that they couldn’t actually tell what they were looking look at and started talking about
07:3207:32 - eternal generation and proceeding from the father in all sorts of oblique ways so um for us for us
07:4207:42 - the the um the interesting thing about the Trinity is really in the fact that in
07:5007:50 - the unfolding plan of God the Father plays a specific role to realize that family that he had he wants in the end
07:5907:59 - the son also plays a specific role towards it and so does the spirit and each of these roles is actually what
08:0708:07 - they were named for which is why it is absurd in the extreme for someone to say for example God is spirit and therefore
08:1808:18 - the holy spirit is the is the spirit of the father who is kind of like the H the body the spirit is the animating force
08:2708:27 - of the father very crazy sorts of things that people come up with which is why they can also talk about the generation
08:3308:33 - of the son because he’s called the son now I will say that kind of what we’re saying here and this is important I
08:4008:40 - don’t want us to get too off in the weeds but they will tend to call these things as hypostatic properties that’s
08:4508:45 - the really jargony theological way that people who argue about these things will say that the father you know in what AUD
08:5308:53 - and I are saying and this is the correct way to look at it the father is called the father not because he was this way
09:0009:00 - and then we applied the label but because of the role that the father acts in creation that’s why he’s called the
09:0509:05 - father right um and the difference is between the roles in the Trinity it’s about what they do not you know so
09:1509:15 - because you know like people I’m sorry I’m not being very elegant here I have had conversations with people who are
09:2009:20 - Orthodox or Catholic who have different ideas about this shall we say and one of the characteristics of what they talk
09:2709:27 - about is that the father is such and such way or the sun is such and such way right that this is why they they are
09:3609:36 - like that and I’m saying no no no the members of the Trinity have adopted the roles in how they deal with us as humans
09:4309:43 - in creation those are different things um and so the names like you said follow the rules right that’s the order here
09:5009:50 - the names follow the rules so um but they are descriptive of how the members of the Trinity operate within the plan
09:5609:56 - of God Sor sorry to jump in but yeah that’s that’s fine the names are not ontologically what they are that’s the
10:0410:04 - point they are simply descriptive of the roles that they play so this is why the roles of the Trinity and the plan of God
10:1310:13 - is a very apt title for us who have chosen to grow spiritually and to um uh get to spiritual maturity and to be
10:2310:23 - productive for the Lord in the ways he wants us to be productive the most important thing is for us to understand
10:3010:30 - what the plan of God is what God is looking to accomplish and how he is setting out to accomplish it so that we
10:3510:35 - can see where we have any space to fit in and make our own contribution that is why when we talk about the Trinity as we
10:4510:45 - said before it’s not an academic thing it’s not something we just theologize about and we can talk with big heads
10:5210:52 - like we have a lot of education and we can use the jargons involved we are learning something that’s viscerally
11:0011:00 - important to our lives it matters in the decisions we make from day to day so that is why the roles of the trinity in
11:0911:09 - the plan of God is a thing that matters to us it also explains to us why one member of the Trinity is called the
11:1711:17 - father another is called the son another is called the spirit and we don’t get lost like those who do and names
11:2511:25 - themselves without actually understanding the point of the names that’s I mean and it’s it’s quite
11:3211:32 - Central to properly understanding the shall we say God’s interaction with creation if you don’t understand the
11:4211:42 - roles you don’t understand how the different members of the Trinity relate it’s just easier to get confused
11:4911:49 - generally speaking about say God’s attitude towards Humanity because how the father interacts with creation and
11:5611:56 - how the son interacts with creation they have chose CH to adopt these these different roles right now if we say that
12:0412:04 - God’s attitude towards humanity is shown in the son that’s true God’s attitude towards humanity is shown in the father
12:1112:11 - that’s true but you see how people who who don’t properly understand the idea of roles will suddenly get all lost and
12:1912:19 - confused because how the Son and the father relate to humanity aren’t the same um and neither one of them is any
12:2612:26 - less true right this is where the rubber hits the road about like maybe it sounds so simple right but people really get
12:3512:35 - lost in this and this is why it’s important for us to cover the roles what it means and how God can have this Unity
12:4112:41 - of purpose even as they each do their adop their roles um in terms of how they interact with creation right they can
12:5012:50 - have complete Unity of Will and yet not be doing exactly the same things right and right about here is where again we
12:5612:56 - say our human ability to comprehend this just does not work very well because you know so for example in human Endeavors
13:0313:03 - people who are you know doing if they’re like on the same page doing the same things that’s how we tend to think about
13:1013:10 - it right um people who have Unity of will are basically doing everything identically God the members of the
13:1813:18 - Trinity are doing not identical things they have adopted these roles yet they have perfect Unity of will how does that
13:2413:24 - work that is the Trinity right um yeah so um all right well we will get into more
13:3213:32 - of all of this but this is the general introduction here that the roles of the Trinity as adopted in the plan of God is
13:3813:38 - the overarching topic that we are setting out to discuss here in this section of the
13:4713:47 - lesson all right so uh the next thing that we’re going to be talking about here uh in discussing the roles of the
13:5413:54 - trinity in the plan of God is we’re just going to be kind of doing this uh taking a step back again to understand why
14:0214:02 - we’re talking about the roles kind of how it relates contrasting it with some of the illustrations we’ve just talked
14:0814:08 - about so uh when we talk about God and his plan for human history one of the ways in which God’s planning is
14:1514:15 - fundamentally different than ours as humans is he has perfect omniscience and perfect forward knowledge and so God
14:2014:20 - does not react to history he doesn’t react to events on an ad hoc or reactive basis he is not merely some big creature
14:2914:29 - is the Creator and sustainer of the universe that makes him fundamentally different and since the beginning of the
14:3514:35 - world even since before the very first Act of Creation God has been working everything together for good it’s what
14:4214:42 - Romans 8:28 tells us um the plan of God is kind of not the focus of the current study where we’re going through theology
14:4914:49 - proper it’s a topic in its own right um some of it’s covered in part 2B of this Bible basic series um 2A talks about
14:5714:57 - angels angelology part two is talking about eschatology um you know specifically the culmination of the plan
15:0415:04 - of God um but nonetheless we’re going to be considering how these unique roles played by the individual members of the
15:1115:11 - Trinity kind of are involved in executing the plan of God in time because when we do this we are going to
15:1815:18 - be gaining biblical insight into the true nature of the Trinity so this isn’t terribly different than what we said uh
15:2415:24 - just before um again we’re just emphasizing the point that what we’re talking about is actually in the Bible
15:3015:30 - that makes it different than some of the illustrations that people have had where it’s not so much focused on you know the
15:3715:37 - words of scripture as people just coming up with ways to try to think about it well this approach of trying to analyze
15:4415:44 - the roles of the Trinity uh as they contribute to the plan of God is actually coming straight out of
15:5015:50 - scripture so anything more to say there before we actually jump into talking about this
15:5615:56 - rather than just talking about talking about it I guess we we we we we’d best just jump
16:0316:03 - into it all right good deal all right so uh having gone through the last couple slides of introduction
16:1416:14 - here now we’re going to start talking about the roles in the Trinity but even before we get there to the individual
16:2016:20 - roles of father son and spirit we’re going to be talking about names for the Trinity generally and specifically
16:2616:26 - shared names here so much can be understood about the Trinity just by considering um the names through which
16:3416:34 - we are told you know like how God is described and named in the Bible so collectively the Trinity refer to
16:4116:41 - themselves as God you know this is one of the fundamental parts of you know the doctrine of the Trinity they are all God
16:4716:47 - they are one in essence they all have the essence of divinity the essence of God um in the Old Testament the Hebrew
16:5316:53 - word for God is Elohim and you’ll see this translated in the New Testament by the common Greek word for God fos like
17:0117:01 - I’ve said this can be used in a plural form for you know like the Greek gods of the pantheon they didn’t make a new word
17:0817:08 - for God they just use that word but understand it with a definite article it is the god of you know Israel rather
17:1617:16 - than Zeus for example um and so this word Elohim Theos in Greek um Elohim in Hebrew is actually a plural word you can
17:2517:25 - see that by the E ending if you’ve ever studied Hebrew um so this is technically a plural of a word originally meaning
17:3217:32 - mighty one um so collectively then the Trinity share this appalation and you’ll see this in scholarship often called a
17:4017:40 - plural of majesty um so Elohim is plural and of course we see this with the context of the New Testament as being an
17:4917:49 - oblique reference to the Trinity but also you know plural as a form of majesty um now individually considered
17:5817:58 - not considering you know the Trinity as a whole but individually members of the trinity in the Old Testament are
18:0318:03 - referred to most commonly by the Hebrew word Yahweh so again this is the tetragramaton um and you’ll see this
18:1318:13 - transliterated in the New Testament uh by the common Greek word for Lord which is Kudos um and this is a word that
18:2018:20 - calls special attention to the Lord’s Timeless and dynamic being so there’s a footnote in the study not going to
18:2518:25 - actually go click on that but um the the root I mean Scholars debate it is relating to the the basically being the
18:3318:33 - idea is existence is tied up in the very name of God and so these two names God and Lord emphasize respectively the
18:4118:41 - unity of the trinity in its three-fold persons that’s the Elohim being plural but refers to the Trinity collectively
18:4818:48 - as well as the joint Divine Essence you know Essence again actually coming from the Latin verb to be you know essay um
18:5718:57 - The Joint Divine Essence of all three members comes from uh the tetr Graton Yahweh right that Hebrew
19:0419:04 - word um the the the four letters there that get us this idea of God being existence he is The Great I Am um so
19:1319:13 - Yahweh is singular but can be used to refer to any of the Trinity’s members individually so this is talking about
19:2019:20 - the Trinity writ large you know this is you know not the specific roles that each of the members adopt but this
19:2619:26 - applies to all of the members um and so this is very much talking about the shared attributes of the Trinity so
19:3319:33 - three persons one Essence right all of them are God Elohim all of them you know have the
19:4119:41 - essence of divinity so each one of them individually can be called by the tetragramaton you know that we might
19:4719:47 - transliterate is Yahweh all of them are wrapped up in that Eternal existence that you know I am who I am that applies
19:5519:55 - to each member of the Trinity you have anything to add here um yeah um I’m going to raise uh two
20:0520:05 - passages let me make sure I haven’t forgotten the second one again um the first one is in Zechariah 2 I’ve
20:1320:13 - mentioned it before in these conversations as well the second one is uh Hebrews chapter 2 Hebrews chapter 1
20:2620:26 - and I believe it was quoting probably um a Psalm it was it was quoting a Psalm but I don’t remember the psalm so
20:3520:35 - Hebrews 2 one will do so in Zechariah 2 I I think it might have been verse 9 or verse 8
20:4420:44 - um yes it’s uh verse 8 for thus says the Lord of hosts he has he sent
20:5620:56 - me after Glory glory to the Nations which plunder you this is um nkjv for He Who touches you touches the
21:0621:06 - apple of his eye for surely I will shake my hand against them and they shall become spoiled for their servants then
21:1421:14 - you will know that the Lord of hosts has sent me the speaker is the Lord of hosts the sender is the Lord of
21:2221:22 - hosts um then in Hebrews uh I believe it’s Hebrews chapter 1 like I
21:3121:31 - said not two Hebrews chapter 1 it says there as well the speaker
21:3921:39 - here let’s let’s begin from verse five I’m not going to read the whole thing I just want to to point
21:4921:49 - out who the speaker here is and I I believe we can start from verse one God who at various times and in various ways
21:5521:55 - spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets then this is still the subject the
22:0222:02 - subject of the long run on sentence that follows in verse 5 it says for to which of the Angels did he this same God ever
22:1122:11 - say such and such and in verse 8 it says but to the son this God says your throne oh God is
22:2322:23 - forever and ever a scepter of righteousness is a scepter of your kingdom you you have loved righteousness
22:2922:29 - and hated lawlessness therefore God your God has anointed you with the oil of gladness more than your companions and
22:3822:38 - in verse 10 this is a very interesting one you Lord this is still God the one we call the father speaking to the son
22:4922:49 - you Lord in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the work of your
22:5522:55 - hands they will perish but you remain and they will all grow old like a garments like a cloak you will fold them
23:0423:04 - up and they will be changed but you are the same and your ears will not fail now these are words that you would expect
23:1323:13 - someone who is Raising praise to the Lord who is worshiping God would say in other words this is the proper way to
23:2123:21 - address God recognizing his place relative to creation and this is the father speaking to the
23:3223:32 - son that in itself I think is pretty conclusive about the the fact
23:4423:44 - that these are equals the son speaks this way to the father there should be no question about it all we have to do
23:5123:51 - is just read the gospels all the prayers that Jesus made all the things he said about the father they are all they are
23:5823:58 - similar what Jesus said about the father we are seeing the father say about Jesus so that is to tell us we’re not talking
24:0724:07 - about people who have any sort of hierarchy between them if we if we would say that for any reason there is we we
24:1624:16 - can say that there is um subservience there is uh there is a sort of a bringing down of the son relative
24:2624:26 - to the father now what do we say when we see this passage we know that the passage that we read in Zechariah 2 was
24:3724:37 - the son speaking we should know that it should be obvious to us because of the role that Jesus played he was the one
24:4324:43 - who was sent by the father to die for our sins the Bible says just as much and what was being said in Zechariah 2 was
24:5224:52 - about the Redemption of Israel which we know from the scriptures is going to be accomplished by the son and yet the
24:5924:59 - speaker was the Lord of hosts in other translations you’ll get you will see the Lord God
25:0525:05 - and the person who is sending the speaker is also the Lord of hosts or as in other translations the Lord God so we
25:1625:16 - might want to get U try to make sense of how this sort of thing is working out but before we get making sense of how it
25:2725:27 - is working working out it it really is sufficient in itself to say these two are the Lord God these two are God and
25:3725:37 - these two address each other with all the respect that is due to God that is very significant in itself it should
25:4525:45 - tell us that then when we apply father as title to one and Son as title to another which is what the Bible says yes
25:5525:55 - we can recognize that because of these titles one is taking a place of authority and another is taking the
26:0326:03 - place of a servant fact if I have a son in my house right now what I have is a daughter if I have a son I expect him to
26:1226:12 - listen to me and do what I say so it makes sense to think of these titles as speaking to their relative authority to
26:2226:22 - each other but we should also not miss the point that when the scriptures address these people in their
26:3026:30 - deity it’s almost as if the titles don’t mean anything they do we should not this the important thing is to hold one on
26:3926:39 - the on on the one hand and hold the other on the other hand recognizing that both things are true at the same time
26:4626:46 - that is pretty much what we are talking about here now to pull us back to the names real quick shows up
26:5526:55 - great example here in the Hebrews passage to the son father speaking he says your throne oh God I am guessing
27:0127:01 - this is vocative but you know that’s a particular case in Greek but I am guessing this this word right here
27:0627:06 - that’s Theos right God yeah and down here verse 10 Lord this is kuros It’s both words we just said right this is
27:1627:16 - the father speaking to the son calls him God and calls him Lord right and yeah you know like the son is God and the
27:2527:25 - father is God and the spirit is God but they all go by you know Lord you know like we see God Almighty Lord of hosts
27:3327:33 - here in Zechariah right um yeah we are talking about these names right here these are shared names of the Trinity
27:4227:42 - right um so you know these are great you know passages referencing some of what we’re talking about um also as we get
27:5127:51 - more into the roles of the father and the son we we’ll talk a bit more about you know the the way in which they
27:5827:58 - relate to each other you know AI has gotten into some of this but the point is and um as this ties back to what
28:0528:05 - we’re talking about you see that both the father and the son or God both the father and the son have all of the
28:1528:15 - aspects of the Divine Essence that we talked about previously you know when we were talking about the nature and
28:2028:20 - essence of God we we said all of these things all these essential so-called essential characteristics of God apply
28:2528:25 - to both the father and the son because they’re both God they both share the same Essence um how can you have
28:3428:34 - inferiority or disparity in status that was one of the things we talked about there can be no inferiority or disparity
28:4128:41 - in status because they share the same essence you know they share the same qualities of divinity um so that’s why I
28:5128:51 - talking about the names are important specifically the fact that these are shared names in the Trinity um
29:0429:04 - yes so now that we’ve talked some about the shared names of the Trinity here so we talked about Elohim translated as
29:1129:11 - Theos in the Greek and Yahweh tetr Graton translated is curios in the Greek well now we’re going to be talking about
29:2129:21 - the individual names for the roles in the Trinity here and so asec this puts it with the Fuller revelation of the
29:2829:28 - Trinity in the New Testament following the Revelation and the Advent of Jesus Christ um so for the Old Testament we’re
29:3429:34 - actually going to be talking about the trinity in the Old Testament separately um but in the New Testament the names
29:4029:40 - Father Son and Holy Spirit um and and these apply to individual members of the Trinity rather than all three of them
29:4629:46 - together well these names these roles give us an even clearer understanding of the roles of the Trinity and therefore
29:5329:53 - the Trinity itself how can we have three members who are not the same person yet have unified will well they work out the
30:0130:01 - same purpose again why we’ve been emphasizing the plan of God they have the same unified purpose yet they do
30:0830:08 - different things um so I I added this note this is actually not part of the study here I said that this is an
30:1530:15 - excellent example of so-called progressive revelation that is it’s not like God was ever not composed of three
30:2330:23 - persons one Essence right this has always been God’s nature God has always been a
30:2830:28 - however how clearly he revealed that to mankind has not been the same across all of human history you know especially
30:3630:36 - with the revealing of Jesus Christ um that is very strong language I think honestly we ought to use that sort of
30:4230:42 - language more often uh the revealing of Jesus Christ was a Divine mystery um with the Advent of Jesus Christ suddenly
30:5130:51 - all of these things that the Old Testament Believers only had in Shadows or prophecy or you know like maybe they
30:5730:57 - were they were kind of guessing at now we have all of that as history as things that we know and believe have happened
31:0531:05 - it’s different hence progressive revelation right um and this is you know this is no strange teaching that we’re
31:1231:12 - getting at here again theologians love to put ter like to to attach labels to things but all we’re talking about is
31:1831:18 - the fact that God’s truth um you know now it’s it’s more sealed because we have the complete Canon of scripture but
31:2631:26 - throughout the working out of the Plan of Redemption you know culminating in the cross in the ministry of Jesus
31:3131:31 - Christ what God had revealed to even Believers you know even people like Abraham and David they didn’t have the
31:3831:38 - full picture and it was revealed progressively over time um and what we’re going to be talking about with the
31:4531:45 - father and the son and the spirit you know there is no contradiction in what I’m saying that just because some of the
31:5231:52 - Believers in the Old Testament didn’t have as clear a view of this doesn’t mean that the MERS of the Trinity like
31:5931:59 - only in the New Testament adopted the roles of father son and spirit you see what I’m saying um like that would be a
32:0632:06 - different thing um so those those rules those roles have always existed even though the knowledge
32:1532:15 - of them and the understanding of them has only been Progressive we haven’t always known about them in in human
32:2332:23 - history just like you said but they have always been there yep I mean it’s also a lot of the discoveries that have been
32:2932:29 - made in science right we don’t say that just because Newton um started talking about gravity gravity only started to
32:3832:38 - exist at that time right you know yeah well I gu say this is not a it’s not a controversial concept here it is just
32:4932:49 - it’s important for us to understand that this is the nature and this by the way this isn’t only dealing with this
32:5532:55 - particular Doctrine in the Bible Progressive Revelations and important topic when it comes to understanding um
33:0233:02 - how God has revealed all truth to us you know not just I mean Jesus Christ like I said the revelation of Jesus Christ we
33:0833:08 - ought to speak about that more because of how big a mystery it was to the people of the Old Testament right
33:1333:13 - stumbling over the suffering servant because they wanted the Conquering king um the mystery of Jesus Christ was a
33:2133:21 - very big deal um but the Trinity is another one of those things where we are blessed to have the ability to read more
33:3033:30 - specifics about how this works with uh God’s nature and how how do the members of the Trinity interact with uh the plan
33:3933:39 - of God for human history and creation and all of this that’s just information that some Believers in the past didn’t
33:4533:45 - have any access to and we’re blessed to have the words of the Bible that mind you it takes a lot of of elbow grease
33:5333:53 - and hard work to you know read and understand and apply and things like that but we have the ability to do that
34:0034:00 - because God has revealed more truth in that Progressive Way yeah yeah yeah very true very
34:1034:10 - true um all right so with that we will pick up next talking about each of the individual roles so the father and the
34:1934:19 - son and the spirit and um each one of those not we’re going to get into it we’re going to be talking about the
34:2534:25 - origin and the significance and the person that’s how we’re going to be breaking down all of that but what we’ve
34:3334:33 - done here is introduce the topic here of these individual names right these these things that kind of were not always so
34:3934:39 - apparent but have always been there even if humans didn’t have title for it like Audie said gravity existed even before
34:4734:47 - Newton started talking about it in the same way the Trinity has always existed in this form even if we didn’t see as
34:5434:54 - clearly because God had not yet revealed the fullness of his truth so that’s where we’re going to uh kind of preface
35:0335:03 - all of our next discussion here of these kind of just by talking about the fact that these roles have always been there
35:0935:09 - right the things that we’re talking about have been there from the beginning in the Bible um although much of what
35:1435:14 - we’re going to talk about is going to be pulling primarily from the New Testament right that’s where we have the more
35:1935:19 - specific Revelation so now we are going to be talking about the names for the three
35:2935:29 - roles in the Trinity going through each one uh kind of in depth here and for each of these roles we are going to be
35:3735:37 - talking sort of about the origin of the name so where it comes from the significance of the name uh so sort of
35:4435:44 - what it means in terms of how we view it and then uh the person of the Trinity corresponding to the name right how it
35:5235:52 - uh kind of affects how we think of that member of the Trinity um so we’re going to be talking about uh these three sort
35:5835:58 - of as a pattern as we go through the three roles three members of the Trinity we’re going to be going over the origin
36:0436:04 - the significance and the person for the father first that’s what we’re doing here and then we’re going to do the same
36:1036:10 - thing for the Son and the same thing for the spirit and so um as we start out talking about the origin of the name
36:1936:19 - father or the thinking of the role in terms of fatherhood so the term for and the idea of the fatherhood of god um so
36:2836:28 - this person this member of the Trinity the father in as much as God functions as a father figure for us um this is
36:3736:37 - obviously all over the place in the New Testament um but it’s actually found in the Old Testament as well and so this
36:4336:43 - idea of the fatherhood of God has been there since the beginning in the pentat the first five books of the Bible onward
36:5036:50 - um so the word father in the Hebrew Old Testament is first used in Deuteronomy chapter 32 um so Deuteronomy 32 verse
36:5736:57 - six says do you thus repay the Lord oh foolish and unwise people is not he your father who has bought you he has made
37:0637:06 - you and established you um and then in the next verse there so that was um 32 ver6 later in verse 18 in that same
37:1437:14 - chapter God is referred to as the rock who fathered you um so the concept of the fatherhood of God um you can also
37:2237:22 - see it here in um Exodus um so uh in Exodus chapter
37:2937:29 - 4:22 um we have this idea of God As the father I mean we don’t see the the word father directly there but it’s by
37:3537:35 - implication um so Exodus 4:22 says then you shall say to Pharaoh thus says the Lord Israel is my son my firstborn so if
37:4637:46 - Israel is his son that makes him the father right um um in the metaphor here and so um Israel is referred to as God’s
37:5437:54 - firstborn son and in invoking uh this idea of fatherhood um in fact uh we should be careful to note
38:0338:03 - that human fathers they get their um their idea of authority and uh uh you know when they run their households and
38:1438:14 - they are the one who makes decisions and has um sort of the capacity to choose and yet the responsibility falls upon
38:2338:23 - them all of that is modeled off of God the Father not the other way around right um so it’s not like God the father
38:3038:30 - created humans and then based on the structure of the Human family decided that he was going to follow that same
38:3638:36 - structure right that is and this is very typical of typology um within how typology comes up in biblical
38:4538:45 - interpretation is God is what we would call the real version of something and then we see the patterns that come from
38:5438:54 - um God or the spiritual how he’s organized the church manifest in the physical world or in human
39:0139:01 - relationships in a way that mirrors the spiritual but the spiritual didn’t copy from the human the human copied from the
39:0739:07 - spiritual that’s sort of the order of the typology here um so this is where the idea of the fatherhood of God comes
39:1539:15 - from now of course we only picked a couple passages here um these are not the only passages in the Old Testament
39:2139:21 - they get at this idea um you know this comes up in uh the Psalms this comes up in you know the gospels all over the
39:2939:29 - place you know Jesus obviously in his kosis as the Incarnation of you know praise to God the Father you know and
39:3739:37 - this is how we are told to pray in the Lord’s Prayer as well um you know Our Father who art in heaven Hallowed be thy
39:4339:43 - name right um so it obviously a critical part of kind of understanding our relationship to the member of the
39:5239:52 - godhead as Audi has articulated before that is the the representation of deity within the Trinity um the one who
40:0040:00 - carries the authority um and this is how the roles have been adopted as we’ll go through more as we go here but this is
40:0740:07 - kind of where we get it from in scripture and so that’s the origin of the name uh the name of the role being
40:1440:14 - father and this idea of fatherhood well what is the significance of this so when we talk about the fatherhood of God this
40:2240:22 - is clearly intended to be taken as an analogy from Human Experience um and so uh we’ve talked elsewhere um you
40:3140:31 - know and ikis certainly does as well about this idea of anthropopathism that sometimes we
40:3840:38 - ascribe emotions to God um to help us better understand him so the wine press of God’s Wrath anger ascribed to God um
40:4740:47 - uh a as as you know someone holding the sword of judgment against Injustice in the world or evil in the world so that’s
40:5440:54 - an anthropopathism this is somewhat anthrop morphic of God as well in that you know
41:0041:00 - God is our father not so much that we are baby Gods you know in the sense that that animals have you know young that
41:0941:09 - are of a kind with them God is our father in this metaphorical sense um and you know in every positive way that our
41:1841:18 - human fathers have that relationship with us God is that but better right and we’ll get into that a little bit more in
41:2541:25 - a second here so like the father who sired us physically so like our human fathers um God is uh the the one who
41:3341:33 - brought us into the world right um you know in fact in the more real sent as I say it’s kind of an intensification in
41:3941:39 - every way because our human fathers you know had a role in you know us coming into the world but they didn’t form our
41:4541:45 - human spirits that was God right um like a father so that is like a human father he’s our authority figure that’s the
41:5341:53 - role of men in marriage and the family right our trainer our discipline Arian and our teacher so this passage here in
42:0042:00 - Hebrews chap 12 um this is a a passage known for the discipline of God um so um I’m just going to read uh most of this
42:0942:09 - here Hebrews chap 12: 5 through1 and you have forgotten the exhortation which is addressed to you as Sons my son do not
42:1742:17 - regard lightly the discipline of the Lord nor faint when you are reproved by him For Those whom the Lord loves he
42:2342:23 - disciplines and he scores every son whom he receives it is for discipline that you endure God deals with you as with
42:3142:31 - sons for what son is there whom his father does not discipline but if you are without discipline of which all have
42:3842:38 - become partakers then you are illegitimate children and not Sons furthermore we had Earthly fathers to
42:4442:44 - discipline us and we respected them shall we not much rather be subject to the father of spirits and live for they
42:5042:50 - disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them but he disciplines us for our good so that we may share his
42:5642:56 - holy all discipline for the moment seems not to be joyful but sorrowful yet to those
43:0143:01 - who have been trained by it afterwards it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness so this passage talking
43:0943:09 - about God’s discipline of us and you can see the analogy in full swing here because we actually bring up how God’s
43:1543:15 - discipline is like the discipline of Earthly fathers except only for our good so that we may share his Holiness right
43:2343:23 - we we mentioned this intensification of fatherhood if you will um our human fathers even as good as they might be or
43:3043:30 - might have been they don’t have perfect information like God does um so it’s not only it’s not only the discipline um so
43:4143:41 - that is one side of the father’s responsibility in a household but he’s also the one in a family who’s supposed
43:4743:47 - to love and care for us who protects us keeps us safe wants only what’s best for us regardless of what we see as best I’m
43:5543:55 - also traditionally the provider in the household the one who is um kind of making sure that everyone in the
44:0144:01 - household has what they need um and is protected from um you know threats out external to the home um so that is human
44:0944:09 - fathers but Gods like that accept better in every way right and so this is the point that we may just kind of going
44:1544:15 - back to this uh being finite human beings our Earthly fathers had strength and weaknesses and despite their best
44:2244:22 - intentions um they had to act on the basis of imperfect information about what’s actually best for us so uh if
44:2944:29 - you’ve ever had a child who does something wrong especially since different children are different and
44:3344:33 - respond to discipline in different ways sometimes it can be really hard to figure out what you’re supposed to do to
44:3944:39 - kind of teach a child the lesson that they need to be taught right so maybe touching hot stoves is dangerous or uh
44:4744:47 - crossing the street without looking both ways is dangerous but how do you instill that into your child parenting is not
44:5244:52 - easy business right um but unlike finite human beings who you know even if they do their very best will never be perfect
45:0145:01 - Our Father in Heaven does not have these limitations he always knows what is best for us he always does what is best for
45:0945:09 - us you know even if we don’t like it even if we don’t see it at the time so in this way God represents the perfect
45:1645:16 - ideal of fatherhood he is not limited in the way that human beings are um so he acts towards us always in perfect love
45:2345:23 - and what he does for us is without question for our ultimate good and this we might think of Romans chapter 8:28
45:2945:29 - for all things work together for the good of those who love him um and that you know that is true generally speaking
45:3545:35 - of parents who want the best for their children that is ever so much more true for our father uh that we have in God
45:4245:42 - the god of the universe because he has the power to make it happen uh God’s will is always done and so no matter
45:4945:49 - what God does in relation to us whether he disciplines us or blesses us he does so in perfect knowledge of who we are
45:5545:55 - and of all that is in our Hearts um so he knows our minds and our intentions even before we act all right so that’s
46:0246:02 - the significance here of this idea of fatherhood the fatherhood of the role of father in the Trinity this is why we
46:1046:10 - call him God the father because this is the way in which he relates to us and so finally that brings us to the person so
46:1746:17 - the father um the member of the Trinity bearing this name um going through uh relating to Creation in this way in this
46:2646:26 - role is referred to as the first person of the Trinity and this is because he speaks in the authoritative first person
46:3346:33 - the I person he decrees things um he speaks as the representation of deity as Audi has put it um he speaks to us
46:4246:42 - directly he mandates things um and in this he’s directly manifesting his manifesting his authoritative will as
46:5046:50 - our God creator and the ruler of the Universe um so this passage before from Exodus 3 we have already talked about
46:5846:58 - this I think we actually almost opened the very first lesson of this study talking about this of God’s essence of
47:0447:04 - being you know the the one who is He Who exists I am who I am in this way we would say that this is representative of
47:1347:13 - the father’s decrees the father’s claims he’s speaking in the first person here um and so this is Exodus chapter 3 veres
47:2147:21 - 14- 15 um talking about I am has sent me to you right God uh stating for all time that we are to know him as the one who
47:3047:30 - is um you know and who was and who is to come and then we also have this passage here from Isaiah chapter 46 and this one
47:3947:39 - um is again God talking in the first person this is this idea of the role of the father being the one who gives
47:4847:48 - authoritative decrees so this is Isaiah chapter6 veres 9-10 so remember the former things long past for I am God and
47:5647:56 - there is no other I am God and there is no one like me declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times
48:0248:02 - things which have not been done saying my purpose will be established and I will accomplish all my good pleasure so
48:0948:09 - you see that this is God decreeing his his authoritative will creation will bow to his decrees and this is the authority
48:2048:20 - of this person in the Trinity and this is kind of why we associate um the father in The Trinity with the first
48:2648:26 - person um this is how God decrees things in creation so I know we’ve been through a lot here um and and we could certainly
48:3548:35 - flesh out um any that we’ve gone through Audi do you have places you want to start as we discuss the father as the
48:4148:41 - first person in the Trinity okay so I think you’ve uh essentially um covered it
48:5248:52 - uh it’s it’s it’s really the role of the father um the the the progenitor The Protector
49:0149:01 - the everything that um a father would be or should be to Creation so yeah I don’t think there
49:1049:10 - is much else that I would I can’t imagine anything I would that I would just reiterate a lot of the things that
49:1749:17 - you have said essentially yeah next we’re going to be talking
49:2549:25 - about the Sun as the second person of the Trinity so just how we talked about the origin of the name or title father
49:3449:34 - uh for um the member in the Trinity who bears that name uh we’re going to be talking about the same thing for the sun
49:4149:41 - here um so uh there’s this verse here in Job chapter 38 this is an interesting verse um actually gets into the idea of
49:4949:49 - recreation um the Angels actually being there as uh God was recreating the Universe um kind of poses a theological
49:5749:57 - issue for people who don’t hold to uh the Gap Theory or ruin reconstruction is that well how are angels existent before
50:0450:04 - the universe if you don’t believe what we believe um but you know that aside this verse talking about the sons of God
50:1150:11 - in Job chapter 38 are referring to Angels so angels are sons of God in the same way that humans are in that
50:1850:18 - important sense that God is our creator he’s our progenitor if you want to use that term um he’s the one who has
50:2650:26 - Authority over us who loves us who does the things in our best interest who disciplines us grows us now obviously
50:3250:32 - elect Angels they intellectual capacity how they work how their free will works it’s all a little bit different from
50:3950:39 - humans um but it’s the same idea generally speaking that they answer to God in the same way that we answer to
50:4650:46 - God uh you know God the Father um so they are sons of God um now we are also all referred to as sons of God so I’m
50:5450:54 - just going to read some references here most of these are not like hard references to follow so in Romans
50:5950:59 - chapter 8 um it says Romans 8 chapter chapter 8 ver14 says for all who are being led by the spirit of God these are
51:0751:07 - sons of God so that’s Believers right um Galatians chapter 3: 26 for you are all sons of God through faith in Christ
51:1551:15 - Jesus uh Galatians chapter 4:5 so that he might redeem those who were under the law that we might receive
51:2251:22 - the adoption as sons and then you can also compare John chap 1:2 but as many as received him to them
51:3051:30 - he gave the right to become children of God even to those who believe in his name and then 1 John chapter 3 uh uh
51:3851:38 - verses 1- two see how great a love the father has bestowed on us that we would be called children of God and such we
51:4551:45 - are for this reason the world does not know us because it did not know him um so I’m going have to go read the second
51:5251:52 - verse um beloved now we are children of God and it has not appeared as yet we will be we know that when he appears we
51:5851:58 - will be like him because we will see him just as he is so two mentions in 1 John chapter 3 veres 1- two of us being
52:0752:07 - children of God so angels are sons of God Believers are sons of God and so this widespread franchise of sunship
52:1752:17 - that’s how ikus has put this here this idea of sunship is based upon the paternal position of the father relative
52:2452:24 - to all of his obedient creatures however and this is where we’re going to Pivot to Jesus Christ there’s only one the Son
52:3252:32 - of God with the definite article and that’s our Lord Jesus Christ um so angels are sons of God believing humans
52:3952:39 - well actually believing angels are sons of God believing humans are sons of God but there’s only one the Son of God with
52:4452:44 - a definite article um so we’re goingon to take a step back here talk about the Incarnation relative to uh the
52:5252:52 - proceedings in the law so Christ incarnation in the Old Testament was in a veiled fashion prophecied and
52:5952:59 - foreshadowed by ritual and sacrifice so it remained in Old Testament times very much a mystery until the time of his
53:0653:06 - actual first Advent um so now with the benefit of hindsight we see how Jesus was revealed as the archetypical Son of
53:1553:15 - God um and that the Old Testament parallels are actually types that look forward to this Revelation and so if you
53:2153:21 - remember just before when we were talking about the father I I made this mention that anytime we have this this
53:2753:27 - sort of idea of typology it’s always the spiritual realities that are the real thing and the human analogies that are
53:3453:34 - the types the parallels um sort of Shadows makes it sound like bad it’s not bad um it’s just the human parallels
53:4353:43 - copied the Divine not the other way around right um and so we have quite the list here um and so again we’re kind of
53:5053:50 - determining where is this origin of the title of sun coming from where where we we getting this how is it manifested in
53:5853:58 - scripture um so we’re going to go through some Old Testament types here um some places where we see this idea of
54:0654:06 - sunship present so one really obvious one is Christ as the last Adam so Adam is called the Son of God we might
54:1554:15 - compare Luke Chapter 3: 38 um you know the son of enosh the son of Seth the son of Adam the Son of God so Adam is called
54:2354:23 - there the Son of God um Christ however is the preeminent last Adam so we have this verse here in 1 Corinthians chapter
54:3054:30 - 15 talking about how uh the first man Adam became a living Soul the last Adam referring to Christ became a lifegiving
54:3954:39 - spirit um if I’m not mistaken Romans chapter 5 talks about similar things as well um interestingly we actually have
54:4654:46 - this passage in Daniel chapter 7 as well talking about like a son of man um one like a son of man was coming so I’ll
54:5354:53 - read this this is Daniel chapter 7: 13 through 14 I kept looking in the night visions and behold with the cloud of
55:0155:01 - Heaven one like a son of man was coming and he came up to the Ancient of Days and was presented before him and to him
55:0855:08 - was given Dominion glory and a kingdom that all the peoples nations of men of every language might serve him his
55:1555:15 - Dominion is an everlasting Dominion which will not pass away and his kingdom is one which will not be destroyed so
55:2255:22 - one like a son of man right um so so this is Christ as the Fulfillment the last Adam um as well as other usage in
55:3155:31 - the New Testament um so Adam was a Son of God but Christ is the preeminent last Adam um now interestingly um Adam you
55:4055:40 - know that’s the name we use in English or Adam as the Hebrew word it means man literally um and so Jesus is the last
55:4955:49 - Adam um and so this is one of the types that points us to this idea of sunship um so another one um and this is where
55:5755:57 - we get into the idea of um sort of the subordination of the son to the father’s will um we talk about Israel as the
56:0656:06 - servant of God um so there’s this passage in the middle part of Isaiah chapter 42 um you know Isaiah
56:1356:13 - remonstrating with the Israelites here talking about um the Israelites as the servant of God um so this one’s a little
56:2056:20 - bit long I may not I may not read this whole passage but um it is conveying the sense here of the Israelites as being
56:3056:30 - the servant of the Lord um and so you know positionally Israel as we read before you know in Exodus 4:22 said to
56:3856:38 - be the Son of God right if Israel is the Son Well Israel is also the servant of God um but Christ is the suffering
56:4556:45 - servant who takes Away The Sins Of The World um and this will be uh kind of a familiar passage to many if we go uh
56:5356:53 - with the passage picking up in Exodus chapter 52 and going sorry not Exodus Isaiah chapter 52 going into 53 uh this
57:0057:00 - is the famous passage of the suffering servant right um you know very Messianic in nature um common for this to be read
57:0857:08 - uh during cor isort of the Christmas time as we Ponder how um it was that that the son came into the world you
57:1657:16 - know the Incarnation um but the suffering servant Christ as the suffering servant right Israel was the
57:2357:23 - servant of God that suffered but Christ is the suffering servant again you see the typology here in work um so I mean
57:3057:30 - this is powerful stuff I I love this passage but again kind of long not going to read the whole thing here um but this
57:3657:36 - is where we are getting the idea of sunship and specifically what it means for for the second person in the Trinity
57:4457:44 - to take on human flesh and become a servant right that context we get in part from this passage here in Isaiah
57:5157:51 - chapter 52 and 53 um so just as Israel is the servant of God Christ is the suffering servant who takes away the
57:5957:59 - sins of the world and then we also have just Israel’s God’s son generally speaking Christ is the Son of God right
58:0658:06 - so um interesting passage here in Hosea chapter 11 talks about when Israel was a youth I loved him and out of Egypt I
58:1358:13 - called my son um uh Matthew is actually pretty clear that um when Joseph uh took Mary and baby Jesus to Egypt to flee
58:2158:21 - herod’s persecution and then Egypt came back it’s actually the Fulfillment of this this was a prophecy um and we see
58:2758:27 - that in Matthew chapter 2:15 um he remained there I think the he here is Joseph probably in context he remained
58:3458:34 - there until the death of Herod that this was to fulfill what had been spoken by the Lord through the prophet out of
58:4058:40 - Egypt I called my son um and again Jesus as the Son of God and then uh folks who are familiar with um sort of this
58:4958:49 - tracing the the so-called Messianic passages in the Old Testament will kind of be familiar with these um we have
58:5658:56 - Jesus as kind of the son of David right so David’s direct line the line of Savior has Solomon as his son but Christ
59:0659:06 - is the son of David right um and in this way we can see this in in Psalm 2 which is certainly a Messianic Psalm um so um
59:1659:16 - this is you know commonly comes up when we discuss the idea of the Incarnation and you know it’s not that the second
59:2359:23 - person in the Trinity is a created being um but we’re talking about Jesus’s human nature in his kosis um Psalm you know I
59:3159:31 - let me actually read this these verses um verses 7 through2 um so this is speaking of the Incarnation um Psalm 2
59:3959:39 - picking up at verse 7 I will surely tell of the decree of the Lord he said to me you are my son today I have begotten you
59:4659:46 - ask of me and I will surely give the Nations as your inheritance and the Very ends of the Earth is your possession you
59:5259:52 - shall break them with a rod of iron you shall shatter them like Earth and wear now therefore O King show discernment
59:5859:58 - take warning or oh judges of the earth Worship the Lord with reverence and rejoice with trembling do homage to the
01:00:0501:00:05 - son that he not become angry and you perish in the way for his wrath May soon be kindled how blessed are all who take
01:00:1201:00:12 - refuge in him um so again speaking of the Incarnation of the son here so that’s Psalm chapter 2 also Psalm
01:00:2101:00:21 - chapter 110 um speaking of the Lord says to my Lord s at my right hand until I make
01:00:2801:00:28 - your enemies as a foot stol for your feet so um if we look at Psalm 110 you know this is the idea of the Lord says
01:00:3801:00:38 - to my Lord you know not David but the Lord of David right this is Christ the Messianic Psalm speaking of Christ as
01:00:4701:00:47 - the descendant of David right the one who came after him yet was greater than him um so in all of these ways we see
01:00:5401:00:54 - that the like we we kind of see where sunship comes from in scripture um so Christ has all of these types in the Old
01:01:0201:01:02 - Testament these things that point to him um and this isn’t to say that Christ is like Bound by the typology right Christ
01:01:0901:01:09 - is the Son of God he fulfills um as the perfect archetype everything that Adam and Israel and even Solomon as David’s
01:01:1901:01:19 - son he fulfilled everything that they kind of were supposed to to a higher standard and intensification if you will
01:01:2601:01:26 - um so that’s the origin of the sun here and when when we talk about the significance of it this is where we sort
01:01:3201:01:32 - of get into U the somewhat um difficult to wrap our heads around topic of the subordination of the son to the father’s
01:01:4101:01:41 - authoritative will particularly during the Incarnation under kenosis when Jesus was emptied out of his divinity um fully
01:01:5001:01:50 - God yet fully man but not taking advantage of his divinity during the Incarnation um so with that kind of
01:01:5701:01:57 - backdrop here um sunship takes on this idea of submission of obeying the will of God the Father um so building on the
01:02:0601:02:06 - idea of fatherhood as discussed before with God the Father sunship denotes the idea of a special and unbreakable
01:02:1301:02:13 - relationship with the father and you can see this um as Jesus you know throughout the gospels talks about the father’s
01:02:2101:02:21 - will as one who knows the father’s will right he is unmistakably the son of God who speaks for the father um but there’s
01:02:2901:02:29 - also dutiful subordination to the father’s will but at the same time that he submitting he also has privilege
01:02:3501:02:35 - inheritance and shared Authority um now if we take a step back for a second this is actually really helpful for helping
01:02:4201:02:42 - us understand what it means for the son to be subordinate to the father yet not necessarily unequal with the father um
01:02:5001:02:50 - Dr lugan B uses an example of the King’s son uh we might think specifically the term might be Crown Prince right the one
01:02:5801:02:58 - who is to be the next ruler um well in you know an absolute monarchy or an an Empire with an emperor and that sort of
01:03:0601:03:06 - thing um typically the people who sit on the throne are sort of unapproachable um you know you don’t have access to them
01:03:1201:03:12 - they cannot hear the plights of normal people they’re kind of Out Of Reach I mean if we take that idea and we map
01:03:1901:03:19 - this on to the father and the son again human analogies only being the Shadows or the reflections of the Divine ones
01:03:2701:03:27 - well in the same way here um the Crown Prince or the King’s son might play the role of a mediator between the king and
01:03:3601:03:36 - his offending subjects and that role can only be played by someone who is on a par with both the father King and with
01:03:4501:03:45 - the subjects and so for Jesus Christ for us plays this role he has a human nature he is one of us the Bible says that he
01:03:5301:03:53 - understands because he lived a human being but he has equality with with God it also says that equality with God is
01:04:0201:04:02 - not something that he has to reach for he’s had it since eternity passed this is the role of the son he is the one who
01:04:1001:04:10 - is accessible to us the one whom we can uh tell our not not our complaints who who advocates for us who is a listening
01:04:1801:04:18 - ear the one who we talk to who then appeals on our behalf to the father as only the Crown Prince can as only the
01:04:2701:04:27 - King’s son can and only a son the Incarnation of the son the Incarnation of the one subordinating himself to the
01:04:3601:04:36 - father’s will he is the only such person who could be sent on the mission of reconciliation um so we have this
01:04:4301:04:43 - passage here in Matthew chapter 21 um and I’m going to read through this this is very very on point for sort of the
01:04:5301:04:53 - role of the son in Rec ilation God’s plan to make peace with mankind yet what mankind does in response so this is the
01:05:0301:05:03 - parable of the landowner so picking up it Matthew chap 1: 33 listen to another Parable there was a landowner who
01:05:1101:05:11 - planted a Vineyard and put a wall around it and dug a wine press in it and built a tower and rented it out to vine
01:05:1701:05:17 - Growers and went on a journey when the Harvest Time approached he sent his slaves to the vine Growers to receive
01:05:2201:05:22 - his produce the vine Growers took his slaves and beat one and killed another and stoned a third again he sent another
01:05:2901:05:29 - group of slaves larger than the first and they did the same thing to them but afterward he sent his son to them saying
01:05:3601:05:36 - they will respect my son but when the vine grower saw the son they said among themselves this is the heir come let us
01:05:4301:05:43 - kill him and seize his inheritance they took him and they threw him out of the vineyard and they killed him therefore
01:05:5001:05:50 - when the owner of the Vineyard comes what will he do to those fine Growers you know and Jesus is speaking this
01:05:5601:05:56 - against the Pharisees of course but the point for us in talking about the role of the sun is you see how the role of
01:06:0301:06:03 - the son is different than the groups of servants that came before the son carries the authority of the father of
01:06:1101:06:11 - the land owner here he is the heir he is the Crown Prince the one whom these people ought to respect because he is
01:06:1901:06:19 - playing the role of mediator between them and the landowner but they don’t respect him so this is the role of the
01:06:2501:06:25 - son in reconciliation for us um and so we will perhaps talk more about this as we try to Grapple with this idea of uh
01:06:3501:06:35 - the subordination of the Incarnate son to the father’s will and things like that but the son’s role of mediation of
01:06:4101:06:41 - reconciliation is only possible because he’s fully God and fully man and that brings us to the person of the son and
01:06:5001:06:50 - what makes us refer to the son in the second person is the fact that he is accessible to us we can speak to him as
01:07:0001:07:00 - someone who took on a human nature who appeared in the flesh to forge a relationship with us on the father’s
01:07:0601:07:06 - behalf as the mediator between us and unapproachable deity and so passage here in uh John chapter 15: 14-15 Jesus
01:07:1701:07:17 - calling the disciples his friends so uh John 15 ver4 you are my friends if you do what I command you no no longer do I
01:07:2601:07:26 - call you slaves for the slave does not know what his master is doing but I have called you friends for all things that I
01:07:3201:07:32 - have heard from my father I have made known to you so Jesus comes bearing the father’s will but he came to forge
01:07:4001:07:40 - relationships with us to be our Advocate to be accessible someone who we talk to someone who can appeal to the father on
01:07:4701:07:47 - our behalf and he has gained access to the father for us he intercedes for us we
01:07:5401:07:54 - have an ear into the sorry we have an in to the throne room of God through Jesus Christ um so some passages for that John
01:08:0201:08:02 - Chapter 14 verse six Jesus said to him I am the way and the truth of the life no one comes to the father but through me
01:08:0901:08:09 - so Jesus playing that role of mediator between us and the father Ephesians chapter 2 verse 18 for through him we
01:08:1901:08:19 - both have our access in one Spirit to the father we have access to the throne room of God through Jesus Christ and
01:08:2701:08:27 - then also Ephesians 3:12 in whom who he being Christ we have boldness and competent access through
01:08:3501:08:35 - faith in him so this is Jesus in his role as the mediator the one through whom we have access to God the Father
01:08:4601:08:46 - who has authority over us um so again just as before kind of talked for a long time here um aie do you have more you
01:08:5401:08:54 - want to say um maybe particularly on that idea of subordination um and and how we work
01:09:0101:09:01 - that into the equality that the members of the Trinity share
01:09:0601:09:06 - so as you said the uh sun is a a role that uh uh was created specifically
01:09:1701:09:17 - for um I would say the Redemption because of course as we know the Redemption of the of of of of human
01:09:2701:09:27 - beings is the Lynch
01:09:3301:09:33 - pin of creation that creation will work is that that Redemption happen so we talk about the cross being the the
01:09:4301:09:43 - central truth the foundational truth of creation so that was only possible because one member of the trinity
01:09:5501:09:55 - was willing to subordinate himself to another essentially to say I will serve at your command so whatever
01:10:0801:10:08 - you say is what I’ll do was an elected thing every time that anyone else has tried to explain this by talking about
01:10:1601:10:16 - how the Sun was generated um eternally as they as they put it that he was somehow generated
01:10:2601:10:26 - from the father misses the point entirely if he is God then he was not generated if he was generated then he is
01:10:3501:10:35 - not God so essentially the the place of this uh this this particular role was was you could say designed by the Lord
01:10:4701:10:47 - in order to make Redemption possible and uh when we when we speak to the
01:10:5601:10:56 - uh subordination that we just talked about again it’s it’s it’s just a choice that the second person of the
01:11:0601:11:06 - Trinity that is that the the the member of the godhead that’s elected to be the son chose in order to realize the plan
01:11:1801:11:18 - of God he was not subordinate to the father because there was a power gradients there one of them being
01:11:2801:11:28 - greater than the other that’s not how that worked it was that when creation comes into
01:11:3501:11:35 - existence I will play this role which is a role where I will be servant to you
01:11:4401:11:44 - and since he was going to take on uh a human nature as well this was going to be sort of a permanent thing because you
01:11:5501:11:55 - you see that in 1 Corinthians 15 It also says that um the son will eventually be subject to the father of
01:12:0401:12:04 - course he he is he always is that he will turn over the kingdom to to to the father and he too will be in subjection
01:12:1401:12:14 - to the father that’s because the um what’s it called the uh human nature that he acquires remains extent
01:12:2601:12:26 - throughout uh eternity it will never be removed anymore so in his human nature he is actually subservient to the father
01:12:3501:12:35 - but in his deity is equal to the father so um I think that’s
01:12:4201:12:42 - uh that’s what I can say at the moment about that I’m looking for this passage you might be able to help me aie um
01:12:5101:12:51 - maybe it’s this I’m thinking of when um hold on trying to find the verse reference here Matthew 19 verse 27 maybe
01:13:0101:13:01 - where the apostles came and they asked who is g to be the greatest right and Jesus yeah talks about becoming servants
01:13:0801:13:08 - do you know what I’m talking about um yes yes I do uh I think you okay so it was James and John
01:13:1801:13:18 - right if I’m not sure if it was John but it was how how you could find it as a uh um here we go this looks prom he he
01:13:2901:13:29 - brought a child among them so let me there were there were two or three other places yeah we’re going on I mean yeah
01:13:3801:13:38 - that that was the Matthew 18 that I that I found but this was specifically the one I was thinking of the sons of zebede
01:13:4401:13:44 - um so this is Mark chapter 10 vers 35 and following um verse 35 says James and John the sons of zebede came to him
01:13:5101:13:51 - teacher they said we want you to do for us whatever we ask you know of course they don’t lead with what they want
01:13:5701:13:57 - right but um verse 36 what do you want me to do for you he asked they replied let one of us sit at your right and the
01:14:0301:14:03 - other it’s your left in your glory you don’t know what you are asking Jesus said can you drink the cup I drink or be
01:14:1001:14:10 - baptized with the baptism I am baptized with we can they answered not knowing what they were signing up for Jesus said
01:14:1901:14:19 - to them you will drink the cup I drink and be baptized with the baptism I baptized with but to sit at my right or
01:14:2501:14:25 - left is not for me to Grant these places belong to those for whom they have been prepared when the 10 heard about this
01:14:3201:14:32 - they became indignant with James and John Jesus called them together and said you know that those who are regarded as
01:14:3801:14:38 - rulers of the Gentiles lorded over them and their High officials exercise authority over them not so with you
01:14:4501:14:45 - instead whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant and whoever wants to be first must be slave
01:14:5201:14:52 - of all for even the son of man did not come to be Serv but to serve and to give his life as a ransom for many so why I’m
01:14:5901:14:59 - bringing up this passage is to get at the idea that the one who has the most Authority is the one who serves most of
01:15:0901:15:09 - all this doesn’t mean that the son is greater than the father but this idea that in service there is there’s
01:15:1501:15:15 - necessarily inferior power right um because if you look through the New Testament Jesus is uniform in insisting
01:15:2301:15:23 - that whoever wants to be greatest must be least of all he must dedicate himself to service um and this idea that
01:15:3101:15:31 - dedicating yourself to service necessarily debases you um I don’t know where we get that from really I mean
01:15:3701:15:37 - like throughout a lot of history a lot of what I would call the noble aristocratic classes have had this idea
01:15:4301:15:43 - that only peasants do hard physical labor you know that sort of thing right um they they they try to make it a class
01:15:4901:15:49 - distinction but that’s not present in the Bible so when we think of Jesus you know subordinating himself to the
01:15:5701:15:57 - father’s will serving as the sacrifice for Humanity laying down his life to save Humanity why do we think of that as
01:16:0501:16:05 - lesser now to be clear there is the idea of subordination in kosis um and and coming back to that again a little bit
01:16:1401:16:14 - when we hear about the human part of Jesus subordinating himself to the father you know Jesus goes at Great
01:16:2101:16:21 - Lengths on about the father’s will and I have come to D to do the will of him who sent me right you know he uses wording
01:16:2801:16:28 - like this frequently but you know that can be true um and that’s not you know it it’s complicated in how the Divinity
01:16:3701:16:37 - of the second person of the Trinity interacts with um the Incarnation um because for example uh the Judgment for
01:16:4401:16:44 - human sin upon the cross wasn’t just the human person Jesus emptied completely of his divinity Jesus had to be fully God
01:16:5001:16:50 - and fully man for the sacrifice for our sins but in his subordination to the father’s will you know part of that was
01:16:5901:16:59 - going to the Cross to die for us and that wasn’t just the human part of Jesus right um but God had this as a purpose
01:17:0801:17:08 - from eternity past um you know something else I don’t want to ramble here but um eth this has made the point you know
01:17:1501:17:15 - this is just necessarily true because of God’s omniscience but before God created the universe he knew that Jesus was
01:17:2301:17:23 - going to be sent to die to save us from our sin right creating the universe meant that that step was sure and
01:17:3001:17:30 - certain um you know for us as finite beings Bound by time we we don’t think like this but to God creating the
01:17:3601:17:36 - universe meant that Jesus would go die on the cross that’s what it meant when God took that step of creation that was
01:17:4301:17:43 - set in stone that’s how the Divine decrees work everything is for ordained right you know based on God’s forn
01:17:5001:17:50 - knowledge of our Free Will and so on but just think about that for a second right the the Trinity from the time they
01:17:5601:17:56 - created the universe knew that this was coming and Jesus still went down to be born in weak human vesture to live a
01:18:0601:18:06 - life of immense suffering to die for our sins even so right um but in this um you know a couple other analogies um and uh
01:18:1801:18:18 - uh you know again maybe I’m jumping all over the place here but um when we think about responsibilities too I I think
01:18:2501:18:25 - something else that comes up is um 1 Corinthians 12 maybe you know how we all have our spiritual gifts all have our
01:18:3201:18:32 - things in the church and we don’t get to look down on people who have different gifts from us um and if you’ve ever
01:18:4101:18:41 - worked on a team um you know most of us uh here on this call probably aren’t in the military but you probably heard
01:18:4801:18:48 - about things like you know you have sergeants and enlisted men and then you have the officers right and
01:18:5301:18:53 - traditionally there’s always sort of a tension between these groups of people but in the end they come together to
01:19:0001:19:00 - meet the objectives of their unit right and is one greater or lesser than the other one of them has commanding
01:19:0701:19:07 - Authority but does that make that person better um and it’s complicated you know that analogy is imperfect because there
01:19:1501:19:15 - is such a thing as Rank and Authority in the military and that’s not true of the people in the Trinity right we have
01:19:2101:19:21 - taken great pains already in our study to emphasize that there is no inequality within the unity
01:19:2801:19:28 - of the Trinity there cannot be any of that no disparity in status or Eternal function or substance right um but you
01:19:3801:19:38 - can have different people on the same team that do different things and one of those people is the one who says do this
01:19:4501:19:45 - dot that and the other people follow that does that mean that there’s inequality there
01:19:5201:19:52 - inherently you know a you want to pick up again sorry I’ve kind of gone several directions here but um yeah I I think
01:20:0101:20:01 - this the the main the main idea um that I would uh I would hold out is this the position
01:20:1201:20:12 - of the the way the Trinity works is that in so far as the three persons involved are each God in their
01:20:2401:20:24 - own right they’re equal to each other but when it comes to how they working to
01:20:3301:20:33 - realize the the plan for creation that they have as God in that particular um
01:20:4401:20:44 - dynamic they do not actually if you will compete for equality the father is held out by the both the other two members of
01:20:5401:20:54 - the church Trinity as being the greatest and the reason for that is not that they are any less God or they are
01:21:0301:21:03 - less powerful or they of less Authority than him no it is for the sake of that plan earlier in this series we talked
01:21:1201:21:12 - about the fact that one member of the Trinity is actually presented by the Bible as being
01:21:2101:21:21 - the face of God in other words most places that you see um the word god used in the Scriptures it is him to which it
01:21:3301:21:33 - refers uh for example when we go to that First Corinthians 15 that we talked about if memory serves me right uh I
01:21:4101:21:41 - actually have my Bible right here let me just um pull that up to make sure I’m accurate on what I’m saying in 1
01:21:4901:21:49 - Corinthians 15 it it actually
01:21:5501:21:55 - holds that everything that is put under in subjection to Christ everything
01:22:0301:22:03 - is put in in subjection to Christ is does not include God himself and later on the son himself is made
01:22:1301:22:13 - subject to him so the only place to see God the father as in where the father is mentioned is in verse 24 when it says
01:22:2101:22:21 - then the end will come when he he hands over the kingdom to God the Father specifying which member of the Trinity
01:22:2701:22:27 - to whom the kingdom is handed um but the point here is most times that you see the word God use it
01:22:3701:22:37 - refers to the father without there isn’t any um uh provision of clarification as to which member of the Trinity
01:22:4801:22:48 - because all three members of the Trinity agreed that the father would be the faith of God the face of the Trinity the
01:22:5601:22:56 - one who who who is presented as the representation of God to Creation but when we go to um Genesis 3 the Lord God
01:23:0901:23:09 - that we see talked about all the time there is actually the second person of the Trinity it’s not the father
01:23:1601:23:16 - himself and this is because of the role of the son and then when we go to uh Zechariah Chapter 2 and I believe vers 8
01:23:2501:23:25 - and N or so I’ve mentioned that passage a few times we see that the person who is
01:23:3101:23:31 - saying or of whom it was speaking the person who said um thus say this is how it was put thus says the Lord
01:23:4101:23:41 - God do you have that it’s I have that look right yes that’s it that’s it for this is what the Lord
01:23:4801:23:48 - Almighty says after the Glorious one has sent me out against Nations have plundered you
01:23:5501:23:55 - and so on and so forth so in in other translations you will have th says this is what the Lord God says after after
01:24:0601:24:06 - the Lord God has sent me after you know Glory or something of that sort the idea here is you have the Lord God and the
01:24:1601:24:16 - Lord God is you know the second person of the Trinity that’s actually the person who is speaking in Zechariah
01:24:2201:24:22 - Chapter 2 again so it’s not as if we’re saying that um
01:24:3101:24:31 - um the the the the title God or that first of all that there is any disparity of of power or position in the Trinity
01:24:4101:24:41 - there is none but also for the sake of the plan that they have for creation the two the other two members of the Trinity
01:24:4901:24:49 - are fine with having a representation of themselves in the scriptures that appears to suggest that they subordinate
01:25:0101:25:01 - to the father so the son for example is the son he is the son even before he becomes
01:25:1001:25:10 - human he’s not he’s not the son purely due to his Humanity he is the son because that’s
01:25:1801:25:18 - the role that he chose to play and the father is greater than the son I mean and so this this theme of accessibility
01:25:2601:25:26 - so I don’t mean to cut in too much but the theme of accessibility carries into christophanies into the Old Testament so
01:25:3201:25:32 - when we think of Moses speaking to the burning bush of Abraham having a conversation with God they’re talking to
01:25:4001:25:40 - the you person second person in the Trinity right the one who is accessible who is representing them to the father’s
01:25:4701:25:47 - Authority um yes yes indeed so that that that is um that is the point there okay so the point the the main thing I I was
01:26:0101:26:01 - trying to address is um it’s it’s almost as if the Trinity just doesn’t seem to care whether you
01:26:1201:26:12 - think that um because the son acts in subordination to the father and the
01:26:2001:26:20 - spirit acts as at the behest of the father and the son that somehow the son is therefore less than
01:26:2801:26:28 - the father in his deity or that the spirit is less than the father and the son in his deity it’s not that they
01:26:3501:26:35 - don’t care about the truth involved in this it’s more that just as we saw um in what Jesus said to his Apostles and what
01:26:4301:26:43 - we see in Phil in Philippians chapter 2 the dynamic in the Trinity is a dynamic of love it’s not one of jealousy you
01:26:5201:26:52 - don’t see them basically struggling to to to establish themselves as something they seem to be just very
01:27:0101:27:01 - comfortable in what they are such that if you don’t accept them to be what they are that’s that’s to your own detriment
01:27:0801:27:08 - it doesn’t affect them in any way so but the scriptures do make it clear to us that the father is God holy and
01:27:1801:27:18 - completely God but so is the Son and so is the spirit so the the the way we are supposed to take things then is if he is
01:27:2701:27:27 - the son it’s not because he is less God he is less powerful he’s less anything he was eternally generated and so on and
01:27:3401:27:34 - so forth It’s that he elected it to to accept a position of subservience it really is subservience a position of
01:27:4301:27:43 - being less than the father but not because he is less in his nature or character but less in
01:27:5001:27:50 - function than the father so he serves at the father’s behalf and in John chapter I believe it’s
01:27:5701:27:57 - chapter 14 to where Jesus was talking about sending the spirit he said that the spirit would take from what is his
01:28:0601:28:06 - to show it to the church so there it may the the the way he spoke of the spirit there could suggest someone give someone
01:28:1401:28:14 - the idea that the spirit is somehow less than the Sun but it does not mean that the spirit is
01:28:2201:28:22 - less in in nature of or character than the son what he is is less in function because that is what he chose and he did
01:28:3101:28:31 - not and and then again as Professor Robert would say that there is no these are not hard and fast demarcations
01:28:3801:28:38 - between the members of the Trinity there there’s a lot of overlap in these functions that we talked about in a lot
01:28:4401:28:44 - of ways the person that the Bible gives to us as the father is he’s very like the son in in
01:28:5301:28:53 - the same function in there are things that he does that you would have attributed to the to the son that it’s
01:28:5901:28:59 - actually the father who does same thing with the spirit so there’s a lot of overlap it’s not hard and fast but the
01:29:0601:29:06 - way the Bible presents these things to us is sort of to tell us all three of them are involved in this Plan of
01:29:1401:29:14 - Redemption this plan of creation Redemption and the um uh confirmation of the family of God in eternity there each
01:29:2401:29:24 - each member of the Trinity um and and the the collective Trinity is fully invested in realizing what God planned
01:29:3501:29:35 - from eternity past so that’s that’s the takeaway that we should have than getting all caught up in the whole
01:29:4301:29:43 - business of who is greater than who another point to make perhaps this will help by way of other examples when we
01:29:5001:29:50 - think of Pastor teachers um even Apostles among the church are they greater than other human beings
01:29:5701:29:57 - I mean it kind of depends what one means by this right are they greater humans you are they just better inherently well
01:30:0501:30:05 - not not really they have a different job however that job of theirs does grant them authority over others right but are
01:30:1401:30:14 - they better inherently well not really it’s the role you see not the person right and if we are able to disentangle
01:30:2301:30:23 - that for human beings well it’s the same thing for the members of the Trinity right how about men and women in
01:30:3001:30:30 - marriage now unfortunately there’s been a group of people throughout history that has done violence to the proper
01:30:3701:30:37 - interpretation men and women are spiritually equal um there’s a verse in Galatians says neither slave nor free um
01:30:4501:30:45 - nor man nor woman nor Greek nor Jew nor Greek right um you know basically all of these things don’t
01:30:5201:30:52 - divide us in Christ Jesus right women are in no way spiritually like lesser than men um that is false
01:31:0101:31:01 - doctrine that is heresy that is something that we should fight against tooth and nail because it’s very
01:31:0601:31:06 - spiritually damaging but within marriage the Bible is nonetheless very clear that men are the head of
01:31:1301:31:13 - households that is where the authority is but again that is a role are men better than women well no but do men
01:31:2401:31:24 - have authority in the household well yes you see what we’re saying right so just as men in marriage just as teachers
01:31:3201:31:32 - within the church just as the father in The Trinity right um that’s all there is to it um it doesn’t mean that in
01:31:4101:31:41 - marriage and in the church that those people those human beings are better than other human beings and so too when
01:31:4801:31:48 - we talk about the members of the Trinity it has nothing to do with greatness it has to do with delegated authority
01:31:5501:31:55 - within the roles that they fill um yeah yeah I did went this is a little bit Ah head skipping in the study but almost
01:32:0501:32:05 - word for word what you said Audi um as Dr lugan bille saying the same thing it is of labor but it is not strict man in
01:32:1301:32:13 - most of these and other joint actions of the Trinity there is overlap and further subdivision of responsibilities which is
01:32:1901:32:19 - often only hinted at in scripture right overlap and further subdivis Vision um we are talking about things to help us
01:32:2801:32:28 - understand and contextualize the function of the roles in the Trinity right um yeah and so you know how we’ve
01:32:3401:32:34 - gone on before about if you have a parable and you try to push it past what you should you run into problems yeah
01:32:4101:32:41 - yeah kind of the same thing here right and we’ve talked about this before uh specifically we keep harping on all
01:32:4701:32:47 - those people who get all bent out of shape about the Eternal generation of the Sun and things like that right they
01:32:5301:32:53 - have in the same way that people who who reason about analogies and Parables have gone off the rails that too is pushing
01:33:0101:33:01 - this it is a metaphor it is not literal right um although the human part of Jesus was literally begotten by God that
01:33:0901:33:09 - part is literal but I mean generally speaking what we are talking about in the roles is a metaphor to help us
01:33:1501:33:15 - understand um yeah all right well maybe we’ll pause see if folks have any questions here right
01:33:2701:33:27 - so now we’re going to talk about the role of the holy spirit in the Trinity so the third person of the Trinity and
01:33:3401:33:34 - just as with the other two roles we’re going to be going kind of in order here first talking about the origin then the
01:33:4001:33:40 - significance and then the person um of this role or this person in the Trinity so uh previously when we’ve been talking
01:33:5001:33:50 - about the origin of the father uh we we mentioned uh kind of how this idea of fatherhood comes up so there’s this
01:33:5701:33:57 - passage in Hebrews chapter 12 that talks about God disciplining us as human fathers we made this point that uh God
01:34:0401:34:04 - is basically like fathers except better in every way so our human fathers may be imperfect but God is like that except
01:34:1201:34:12 - ever to a more perfect degree and we made the point that it’s the human that copies the Divine not the other way
01:34:1901:34:19 - around that’s how typology works so too with the sun um we had all of these comparisons with uh basically where
01:34:2601:34:26 - we’re getting this idea of sunship from the Bible Well the spirit is actually perhaps uh even more straightforward as
01:34:3301:34:33 - to where we get it uh because the words for Spirit in both Greek and Hebrew mean breath or wind as well um so this idea
01:34:4401:34:44 - of some unseen force is just right there in the Greek and Hebrew and so uh the Greek and Hebrew words for Spirit you
01:34:5201:34:52 - know this is straight from ichus ruak is the uh is the Hebrew word and Numa is the Greek word here and both of these as
01:35:0001:35:00 - I say have that meaning of wind or Breeze as well as meaning spirit so when we say holy spirit in English and we get
01:35:0901:35:09 - this idea of uh some form of force or some form of uh presence that has this unseen effect this restraining effect as
01:35:2001:35:20 - we’ll talk about in in a second here it’s just kind of right there in the words um and so we don’t even have to uh
01:35:2701:35:27 - I don’t know go find specific uh you know maybe kind of this typology like we were talking about with the sun um all
01:35:3301:35:33 - of these things throughout the Bible that point us towards that idea of sunship well the idea of spirit is kind
01:35:3901:35:39 - of right there in the title um I mean I guess obviously sun is as well but the spirit’s a little bit more obvious in
01:35:4601:35:46 - this way um now just to emphasize up front here and we’ll talk about this in a little bit more just because the
01:35:5301:35:53 - Spirit has this sense of being unseen he’s this Force that’s working behind the scenes to restrain evil and Empower
01:36:0001:36:00 - good and you know uh indwell us connect us to the father and the son have perfect Unity with God that doesn’t mean
01:36:0801:36:08 - that he is impersonal that he is somehow just like a force of Nature and doesn’t have a will or personality um we’ve kind
01:36:1701:36:17 - of already been over this but it’s just we have to emphasize that that even though he is the Unseen member of the
01:36:2201:36:22 - Trinity for us that does not mean that he is not a person um that he doesn’t for example intercede for us with
01:36:3001:36:30 - groanings too deep for Words forget exactly which passage that is we’ve already read that but the spirit is a
01:36:3601:36:36 - person and so we just need to not forget that um it’s maybe easy for us to view him somewhat more impersonally because
01:36:4401:36:44 - he has these effects without being someone that we address uh like when we pray to the father we kind of pray
01:36:5201:36:52 - through Jesus Christ chist we made this big deal out of how Jesus sort of serves as the Crown Prince if you will the one
01:37:0001:37:00 - who gives us access to the throne room of the father well Jesus is the one uh kind of that we had face-to-face access
01:37:0701:37:07 - with the father is the one that we address our prayers to as the representation of deity the one with
01:37:1301:37:13 - authority but we kind of don’t have that same impact with the spirit but the spirit is the one who helps us pray to
01:37:2101:37:21 - the father and the son and so so the idea behind this is that even though the spirit’s unseen he is not somehow
01:37:2901:37:29 - impersonal um maybe in the sense that you would think of I don’t know maybe more Eastern conceptions of some force
01:37:3601:37:36 - of nature or fate or what have you um uh this holy spirit is a person and again that is rolling back to the definition
01:37:4401:37:44 - of the Trinity that we’ve been going over of three persons one Essence well the spirit is one of the three persons
01:37:5101:37:51 - um all right so that’s kind of where we get this idea of spirit of wind of breath from is that it’s right there in
01:37:5901:37:59 - the words that are used in the title in both the Greek and the Hebrew and again just to note it’s actually quite
01:38:0601:38:06 - noteworthy that this same um what I would say the same set of meanings is actually present for the words in both
01:38:1401:38:14 - languages that is not very typical actually um a lot of the time if you have a word that can mean kind of two
01:38:2001:38:20 - things you know different separate meanings very often those connotative factors will differ across languages um
01:38:2801:38:28 - but for this specific word it’s actually there in both Greek and Hebrew which is quite noteworthy so that’s kind of where
01:38:3401:38:34 - we get the idea of spirit from and as to the significance of this well just compare the idea of physical wind in the
01:38:4201:38:42 - world so the wind is a potent invisible force though we perceive it and experience its effects we can neither
01:38:4801:38:48 - see where it has come from or where it is going to we have this uh basically a verse reference here from John chapter
01:38:5601:38:56 - 3:8 um well so too is that true of everyone who’s born from the spirit um you might also compare I think somewhere
01:39:0301:39:03 - in 1 Corinthians chapter 2 maybe Verse 18 don’t quote me on that reference um Paul mentions how basically spiritual
01:39:1101:39:11 - things seem like foolishness to those who do not see with eyes of Faith well so at any rate the wind as this potent
01:39:1801:39:18 - invisible force um now of course nowadays uh with with science and and instruments that help us measure such
01:39:2501:39:25 - things like barometric pressure we have a better understanding of wind patterns you know on the surface of the Earth if
01:39:3101:39:31 - you will however the main point is is that for us in the metaphor here by analogy we experience the effects of the
01:39:4001:39:40 - wind’s presence without really being able to trace it at least not with the naked human eye and so the effects that
01:39:4801:39:48 - we experience can be anything from sort of a gentle warming influence you know you might might compare a day with good
01:39:5501:39:55 - weather out in the sunshine having a gentle breeze on your face uh to something uh like a powerful chilling
01:40:0201:40:02 - wind maybe in a storm something that would give you hypothermia lose body heat very quickly and so uh variety of
01:40:1001:40:10 - effects that’s something to emphasize here it’s not all just one thing um and we’ll get to that a bit when we talk
01:40:1501:40:15 - about the spirit’s role here um but wind and again that is the same word that we’re using for Spirit in the Greek and
01:40:2201:40:22 - the Hebrew is very descriptive as an analogy for the holy spirit’s role in the plan of God his invisible yet
01:40:3001:40:30 - powerful support for good um we have a couple verse references here um this one from Zechariah Chapter 4 uh verse 6 not
01:40:3901:40:39 - by might nor by power but by my spirit says the Lord right and this is zarab Babble building in this book in
01:40:4601:40:46 - Zechariah and then we have 1 Corinthians chapter 12 here talking about uh how the Holy Spirit
01:40:5301:40:53 - will basically he’s the one who enables us to have faith I’m paraphrasing a bit but um no one can say Jesus is Lord
01:41:0101:41:01 - except by the Holy Spirit um and then he also restrains evil so we have this this passage here in second Thessalonians
01:41:1001:41:10 - chapter 2 um this is talking about uh it’s prophetic um it’s talking about the Restraint of the Holy Spirit when it
01:41:1701:41:17 - gets removed in the end times um the mystery of lawlessness um well once the spirit is removed uh the
01:41:2601:41:26 - lawlessness of the world um this Restraint of evil when it is taken away the world will go will go wild it will
01:41:3301:41:33 - go crazy in a way that the spirit has thus far been restraining so this is passage in second Thessalonians chapter
01:41:4001:41:40 - 2 veres 5 and following um also uh you know uh I’m not going to go through all the
01:41:4801:41:48 - references here but the point is Spirit restrains evil um we actually have the same verse from from second Corinth or 1
01:41:5401:41:54 - Corinthians chapter 12 um talking about how well we can only confess Jesus as Lord through the power of the spirit but
01:42:0101:42:01 - also when people reject him um that uh basically the spirit is the one who controls our I don’t me think about how
01:42:1101:42:11 - to phrase this um the spirit is the one who restrains um evil among people who don’t confess but also is the one
01:42:1901:42:19 - through whom we can confess our belief um so um again just to summarize the significance of this of this analogy of
01:42:2701:42:27 - this metaphor for the role of the spirit is a potent force that is not seen by us it has these effects on um basically
01:42:3701:42:37 - supporting good and restraining evil both in us uh you know like the fight between the spirit and the flesh you
01:42:4401:42:44 - might compare uh Galatians chapter 5 where we know that the Flesh and the spirit are in conflict with one another
01:42:5101:42:51 - but also in the world more generally um both supporting good and restraining evil now in terms of the person we say
01:43:0001:43:00 - that the spirit is the third person of the Trinity so we talked about uh already the father is the first person
01:43:0701:43:07 - and the son is the second person and when we think in terms of grammar the first person um as the father when he
01:43:1301:43:13 - decrees things he uses this eye language um you know like uh my decrees stand firm for all time and it will go as I
01:43:2201:43:22 - have planned it things like that um the authoritative uh the one who speaks forth his decrees we’ve talked about how
01:43:2901:43:29 - the son is sort of the second person the one whom we access the one who we address we talk to as one of us face to
01:43:3701:43:37 - face and the spirit is the third person who we don’t address and who doesn’t address us but he is there nonetheless
01:43:4501:43:45 - working out God’s plan in the world so again unlike the father he does not speak directly to us and unlike the son
01:43:5401:43:54 - he has not been made manifest to us you know taking on human flesh being born into the world in the Incarnation but
01:44:0101:44:01 - instead just like the wind the spirit is unseen by us but also just like the wind that doesn’t mean that we don’t
01:44:0801:44:08 - experience his power that we can’t feel the effects of his ministry and just to emphasize again the spirit is not
01:44:1701:44:17 - impersonal he is a person he is one of the three members of the godhead in the Trinity and so when we say that we feel
01:44:2601:44:26 - his effects it’s not in the same way um that we have these laws of nature if you will or or things that aren’t personal
01:44:3501:44:35 - um so um we talked about this passage before where um the spirit I should have pulled this up beforehand um Audie do
01:44:4301:44:43 - you know off the top of your head um the passage where in the New Testament the spirit is is said to be the one Speaking
01:44:5001:44:50 - um I think this is Ephesians is it Ephesians or Hebrews it’s in Hebrews chapter
01:44:5701:44:57 - 4 Hebrews 4 I know it’s quoting an Old Testament scripture um can you hear me yeah I can hear you
01:45:0701:45:07 - okay it’s in Hebrews chapter 3 Hebrews chapter 3 yes right here um the Holy Spirit
01:45:1501:45:15 - speaks here right um so I’m sorry I should have pulled that reference up before but this is the point the Holy
01:45:2201:45:22 - Spirit despite being this force that is largely unseen by us he is still a personal member of the godhead um he’s
01:45:3001:45:30 - still speaks and this also gets to one of those other points that we’ve talked about before that the roles are not uh
01:45:3901:45:39 - let me think about the right way to put this they there are somewhat blurry lines of distinction between them right
01:45:4601:45:46 - um it is not uh as certain groups suppose something that is like forced by Nature upon the members of God it is
01:45:5401:45:54 - something that they have elected to adopt in uh a way in which we humans might understand them um so um I think
01:46:0401:46:04 - that’s that’s uh about what we have to say about this um so to wrap up what we’ve gone over here for this third
01:46:1201:46:12 - person we’ve talked about where it comes from in the words um the significance of this analogy of viewing it like wind and
01:46:1901:46:19 - then also how uh despite the fact that the spirit is UN seen he still has these effects in the world but he’s also still
01:46:2601:46:26 - a person AI do you have anything to Riff on here maybe especially given this this quotation we just pulled up about the
01:46:3501:46:35 - spirit speaking and um tring to think about other one where it says he intercedes for us he intercedes for us
01:46:4401:46:44 - should be Romans chapter eight yes yes right before yeah Roman that’s right before the um you know the
01:46:5201:46:52 - the whole chain of forn predestined Justified glorified sort of thing so not much um except just as
01:47:0201:47:02 - these things you’ve pointed out the note it’s not that we’re strictly saying he doesn’t speak to us he doesn’t you know
01:47:0801:47:08 - interact with us and all that it’s just that the role he plays in the Trinity um largely places him in a and
01:47:1701:47:17 - we’ve talked about these roles overlapping in some ways you know so we know that calls Jesus our inter
01:47:2301:47:23 - even though that’s more the spirit’s role you know so we have things like that happening um in the scriptures uh
01:47:3201:47:32 - so I think I think that the dis the discourse so far it should make sense as to why there is often that difficulty
01:47:4101:47:41 - with making sense of how um the spirit is the spirit for those who start to think that um uh the the spirit of God
01:47:5301:47:53 - uh is is somehow the animating force that makes the husk that is the father you know work or something like that if
01:48:0201:48:02 - God the father is the body and spirit somehow isting principle that’s not how any of this works he’s called the spirit
01:48:1001:48:10 - because of the role he plays that he is more in the background even though he is his effects are very very obvious and
01:48:1901:48:19 - undeniable as you have said he is the one one that is restraining evil in the world he’s also the one empowering
01:48:2601:48:26 - everything that is good everything that pleases God in the world so but he is not in the foreground he is not in the
01:48:3401:48:34 - for he’s not the one we we run into so to speak I think it’s really interesting to
01:48:4101:48:41 - consider you may see this come up as a theme in literature some this idea of the individual versus the collective the
01:48:4801:48:48 - spirit the role that he plays is actually present in both angles and I was somewhat inelegant getting the point
01:48:5501:48:55 - across um just because I don’t know why I was having a hard time phrasing it but this idea of the spirit allowing us you
01:49:0201:49:02 - know the he’s the one through whom we are able to confess Jesus Christ right um and this idea of in the personal
01:49:1001:49:10 - individual sense um what we do uh gate kept isn’t quite the right word but we are empowered by the spirit as
01:49:1801:49:18 - individuals um it’s kind of he’s the one through whom we are connected to God he’s the one who indwells us when we
01:49:2401:49:24 - believe all of that’s at the individual level but we also talked about how the spirit empowers good and restraints evil
01:49:3001:49:30 - in the world as a collective right so this idea of individual versus Collective or you know the world more
01:49:3701:49:37 - properly not the individual um the spirit is present at both macro levels if you will um and his effects are seen
01:49:4501:49:45 - in both places um and so I think that can be helpful for us understanding his role a bit better is that it’s not just
01:49:5301:49:53 - you know in an individual’s life this is true on the global scale as well as this passage in second Thessalonians mentions
01:50:0101:50:01 - when the Restraint of the spirit is removed then we’ll really see how he’s been restraining things across the
01:50:0901:50:09 - world I think that’s that’s about that all right so the thing that we’re going to
01:50:1801:50:18 - close with here in this examination of the Trinity rules is going to be mostly discussing how uh these analogies that
01:50:2601:50:26 - we’ve spoken of for the persons of the Trinity for these roles the idea of the fatherhood of the Father the sonh of the
01:50:3401:50:34 - Son and the spirits uh invisible empowering and restraining force in the world well how these things are
01:50:4201:50:42 - analogies and we don’t get to push the analogies to describe reality other than by analogy I mean it sort of seems like
01:50:5001:50:50 - a maybe a really obvious point to to make but it’s actually critically important because a lot of heresy in the
01:50:5601:50:56 - past has been because people don’t appreciate this point um and so maybe that’ll be more clear in a second here
01:51:0301:51:03 - so these things are representative of the individual roles in the plan of God for mankind and the analogies have been
01:51:1101:51:11 - given to help us understand the relationships and the functions of the three Divine Personalities in that plan
01:51:1601:51:16 - so how they relate to each other so to speak but we should not push the names of the roles past what they are intended
01:51:2501:51:25 - to be in the Bible which is analogies to our human frame of reference as in these are for us they are not clinical
01:51:3401:51:34 - descriptions of how God works so to speak so much as they are ways for us to better understand him and so um if you
01:51:4301:51:43 - have studied the nature of God at all You’ probably come across the words anthropomorphism and
01:51:5001:51:50 - anthropopathism and these are long technical jargony terms for describing how sometimes we ascribe things to God
01:51:5901:51:59 - to make him kind of like humans in form right um and actually I think maybe we don’t maybe we don’t anthropomorphize
01:52:0701:52:07 - God so much as we anthropopathy him anthropomorphism was I think more common that’s like I don’t know uh viewing
01:52:1301:52:13 - animals as more like humans in form path is and deals with this idea of emotion so a good example is God’s anger well in
01:52:2101:52:21 - any case just take a step back when we do this we are making God sort of fundamentally something he’s not to help
01:52:2901:52:29 - us better understand him now this isn’t like I don’t know this is some sort of terrible practice because the Bible uses
01:52:3501:52:35 - this right when we anthropomorphize god um we are saying he is a father well God is not a father in the same sense that
01:52:4301:52:43 - you or I have a human father but he is still Our Father why because in the same way that human fathers for example
01:52:5101:52:51 - discipline us and are the authority figure in our lives that we need to respect and submit to and things like
01:52:5701:52:57 - that well God is like that right and that’s why it’s a helpful way to help us understand him same deal with the
01:53:0301:53:03 - sunship of God and the Unseen effects of the Holy Spirit again these things are analogies for our benefit but the
01:53:1101:53:11 - problem here is when people take this and then they say that well because Jesus is the son of God that therefore
01:53:1901:53:19 - somehow it has to be true in what I would call the real objective ontological sense that the father
01:53:2501:53:25 - somehow originated the son that the son is created and hopefully you see right away that that is a problem that’s a
01:53:3301:53:33 - very different thing we’ve already emphasized in our study here that all three members of the Trinity share in
01:53:4001:53:40 - the same Essence they are all co-equal and co-eternal and consubstantial but they can’t be co-eternal if one
01:53:4701:53:47 - originates the other right now it is true that the human nature of Jesus Christ
01:53:5301:53:53 - was begotten we might say you know that is the word that you’ll hear come up here but that is his human nature and
01:53:5901:53:59 - his human nature only the Divine person of the Son of God is Not generated from the father and you can see where people
01:54:0701:54:07 - get it because in human terms Sons come from their fathers right well and their mothers you know um but the point is
01:54:1501:54:15 - that’s not descriptive of how the members of the Trinity relate to each other that is pushing the analogy too
01:54:2201:54:22 - far and so many heresies in the past you know many of them stumble on this point they say well the Bible speaks of God
01:54:3101:54:31 - the father and God the son therefore somehow the son must come from the father but in fact the son is co-equal
01:54:3701:54:37 - co-eternal consubstantial with the father he cannot be originated from him it’s simply not true that is pushing the
01:54:4401:54:44 - analogy too far um and so this the true of the spirit as well sometimes people will subordinate either the son or the
01:54:5001:54:50 - spirit as kind of being lesser than the father in some way maybe proceeding from him that is the language you’ll hear of
01:54:5701:54:57 - the spirit these things are not true they are pushing the analogies further than is permissible and so that’s kind
01:55:0401:55:04 - of the point that we’re making here fundamentally is that these things are just analogies they are nothing more and
01:55:1001:55:10 - nothing less and they are supposed to help us understand God and they are good and godly and we should use them because
01:55:1601:55:16 - the Bible does and they’re for our benefit but they are not supposed to tell us exactly like the scientific
01:55:2401:55:24 - accounting of things so to speak and trying to take them that way is incorrect you are trying to take the
01:55:3001:55:30 - text in a way that it was not meant to be taken um so you might hear things such as this the the Bible is not meant
01:55:3701:55:37 - to be a science textbook right people will say this about uh the Book of Genesis it is true to a degree but the
01:55:4301:55:43 - point is when we interpret things we need to understand what their purpose is what their point is doesn’t mean that we
01:55:4901:55:49 - can make the Bible mean whatever we want it to mean but it does mean that we need to read it as it was meant to be read so
01:55:5501:55:55 - to speak um all right so one other thing and I’ve already emphasized this the spirit is not impersonal right he is
01:56:0301:56:03 - invisible and largely unseen as an agent here in a way that the son was not so for example christophanies in the Old
01:56:1001:56:10 - Testament and obviously Jesus being physically Among Us however he does act in a very personal way towards us and
01:56:1701:56:17 - towards the other members of the Trinity um so there’s a lot of vers references here um I would encourage people who are
01:56:2401:56:24 - interested to go look these up these are coming from the study I didn’t make these um but the spirit is our comforter
01:56:3001:56:30 - and our encourager those things are something done individual to individual right person to person we would say um
01:56:3901:56:39 - leadership encouragement and empowerment these are personal uh what we might say actions of the spirit um personal and
01:56:4901:56:49 - animating you know he’s not just a force and so this is another way in which people take the analogy and then they
01:56:5801:56:58 - try to over apply it they say well you see the word for spirit is wind therefore just like the wind is
01:57:0401:57:04 - impersonal because it is the wind is not literally a person if we do make the wind a person we personify you know you
01:57:1101:57:11 - might hear like I don’t know Father Christmas or something right or Dawn as for example a woman with a trailing gown
01:57:2001:57:20 - or trailing cloak or something right that we’re personifying inanimate things well the spirit isn’t like that he is
01:57:2801:57:28 - like the wind in that the effects of his role as he plays out in God’s plan in the world are largely unseen but that
01:57:3501:57:35 - doesn’t mean that he isn’t a person and so these are just but two cases here of people taking the analogy and then going
01:57:4501:57:45 - further with it than we should um and so again the analogies are just analogies and nothing more but they do help us
01:57:5201:57:52 - better understand the roles of the trinity in the plan of God and that’s why they’re there in the
01:57:5801:57:58 - Bible Audie you have any thoughts on any of this stuff that we’ve gone over here not much just a reiteration of what we
01:58:0701:58:07 - said earlier of what I said earlier which you have essentially repeated which
01:58:1201:58:12 - is uh represent what the roles are supposed to be or what the rules are they don’t really tell
01:58:1901:58:19 - us for example most people get uh really interested in the identities of
01:58:2701:58:27 - different uh angels in the scriptures the names the names the spirit
01:58:3501:58:35 - the what we want to know about the godhead but they do tell us what we need to know which is how each member of the
01:58:4401:58:44 - Trinity is involved in this business that really concerns us in such to such a great
01:58:5501:58:55 - extent we are part of something really big really Eternal and we are learning just how involved God is with it um that
01:59:0601:59:06 - again like you said that he is Spirit does not mean that he is impersonal it also does not mean that um he is the
01:59:1401:59:14 - thing that is really alive and the rest of the godhead is more like I don’t know husks or something of that s all of this
01:59:2301:59:23 - is simply speaking to the functions the roles that they play so um I’m I’m not sure there is much more to add to all
01:59:3301:59:33 - that if anyone at this point honestly I feel more and more as if if anyone stumbles over these things they really
01:59:4001:59:40 - really want to stumble over them it’s in many studies now we have discussed pretty much the same thing over and over
01:59:4801:59:48 - again which is that whenever we come across analogies whenever we come across these names were not supposed to think
01:59:5501:59:55 - of them as if we’re thinking about human beings or creatures of any kind we’re talking about God he’s a fundamentally
02:00:0302:00:03 - different sort of existence from the universe he’s not like us we were our our creation was based on what he is but
02:00:1402:00:14 - that does not mean that he is like us we are if you will a poor imitation of what he is
02:00:2302:00:23 - should tell us that whenever we are trying to make sense of him we don’t use ourselves I love the way that someone
02:00:2802:00:28 - actually put it several months ago on clubhouse he said that you don’t do theology from
02:00:3402:00:34 - anthropology so you you leave man as man and treat God as God a lot of things that about God that we understand are
02:00:4402:00:44 - made understandable To Us by relating God to us through our experience in other words it’s like you know what a
02:00:5102:00:51 - father is yes God is something like that you know what the spirit is right yeah well the spirit is something like that
02:00:5902:00:59 - but that does not mean that you know the spirit is that and and God is that there are differences between what God is and
02:01:0702:01:07 - what we are even though in in a lot of ways if we understand what we are we get a good understanding of what God is
02:01:1602:01:16 - that’s yep yep and just I to Riff on what you’ve said said here it really should be obvious to us that’s something
02:01:2502:01:25 - that I think it perhaps Bears repeating given that a lot of people seem to not find this obvious or they argue it’s not
02:01:3202:01:32 - obvious and I don’t know how to say it in a a perhaps a diplomatic way other than it’s just they’re they’re wrong and
02:01:4002:01:40 - this is not hard is what we should say and we shouldn’t equivocate on this um the things that we’re talking about it
02:01:4702:01:47 - doesn’t matter that people have argued about them long and philosophical for hundreds of years in church history well
02:01:5302:01:53 - so what because these things are pretty clear from scripture and this idea that we’re talking about about analogies just
02:02:0002:02:00 - being analogies it’s pretty Central to the discipline that we typically call hermeneutics this idea of interpretation
02:02:0702:02:07 - of the Bible this is not like so to speak an 8,000 level course in hermeneutics it’s one of the very first
02:02:1402:02:14 - starting ones right you have to read the Bible as it was meant to be read right and part of that is you don’t push
02:02:2002:02:20 - analogies further than they should um so that’s just to say what AI has said here about this idea of people who
02:02:2702:02:27 - stumble over this they kind of have to want to because you have to twist things to take it in the the ways that that we
02:02:3602:02:36 - are arguing are incorrect um you have to be pushing something that basically you’re making this assumption that the
02:02:4202:02:42 - text doesn’t make itself um so uh with that that’s where we’ll close out this and uh um in the next lesson we are
02:02:5102:02:51 - going to be talking about uh how the roles show up in the New Testament more directly so we’ll be reading more
02:03:0102:03:01 - scripture so that’s where we’re going to end this lesson here talking about the roles in the Trinity so kind of an
02:03:0702:03:07 - overview of the three roles as we find them in the godhead and so we kind of started out uh talking about how the
02:03:1602:03:16 - roles in the Trinity um are kind of there to help us give perspective on how God works um so a Biblical way we would
02:03:2402:03:24 - say right as opposed to some ofat the illustrations that we’ve gone over previously that fail to capture that
02:03:3002:03:30 - idea of three persons one Essence uh kind of in a way that doesn’t mislead us and so um God has been uh for all time
02:03:4002:03:40 - relating to us in his Redemptive purpose towards mankind so saving us from our sin redeeming us um From Slavery to sin
02:03:4902:03:49 - reconciling us with himself in uh making us Sons and Daughters we have the inheritance of God With Jesus Christ as
02:03:5502:03:55 - our elder brother the first fruits and the resurrection all of this stuff he’s been doing this um and these roles that
02:04:0102:04:01 - he’s adopted as he relates to us um we’ve already talked about how all three members of the Trinity are involved in
02:04:0802:04:08 - all of these processes so all of that all of those jargony terms like Redemption and justification and all of
02:04:1502:04:15 - that sort of things all three members of the Trinity are part of it we talked about uh shared names of the Trinity so
02:04:2202:04:22 - Elohim in the Old Testament and as well as the tetragrammaton the proper name of God I
02:04:2902:04:29 - am who I am uh he who was and is and is to come we talked about the individual names for the Trinity and the roles that
02:04:3702:04:37 - they adopt so the father as the first person the one who speaks in the authoritative eye voice the son as the
02:04:4402:04:44 - accessible person the one who took on flesh that we can talk to as our older brother uh in the faith as the one who
02:04:5202:04:52 - intercedes for us before the father sort of just in the same way that uh people might go to the Crown Prince rather than
02:04:5902:04:59 - the authoritative King on the throne because he’s more accessible and then we talked about the Holy Spirit as the
02:05:0602:05:06 - Unseen yet powerful force that empowers good and restrains evil both in us as individuals and in the world as a whole
02:05:1302:05:13 - and then finally we just closed here talking about how all of these roles are just analogies we don’t get to go
02:05:1902:05:19 - further than what they are as analogies and so two examples we talked about was how the son is not actually originated
02:05:2802:05:28 - from the father and that if you think that because of the role son of the title son you’re getting the wrong idea
02:05:3402:05:34 - you’re pushing it too far same idea with viewing the spirit as wind if you view the spirit as impersonal you’re pushing
02:05:4102:05:41 - it too far the spirit is still a personal he’s one of the three persons of the Trinity so that is what we’ve
02:05:4802:05:48 - talked about uh in this last lesson and now we are going to be tur turning to talking about more actual direct
02:05:5402:05:54 - scripture to kind of back up some of what we’re saying and just to get a feel for how the roles function um as the New
02:06:0002:06:00 - Testament uh lists things out so that’s what we are going to be turning to next